Government ID Cards

#1
What is so wrong with the idea of having a Government issued ID card?

If everyone was to have an ID card, it would stop underage kids being served alcohol, it would help tackle immigration, in the long run with the inclusion of finger prints and possibly DNA being taken from everyone it would help reduce both minor and major crimes.

Why is it an invasion of privacy? What is your fingerprints and DNA to you? To me my fingerprints are a bunch of squiggly lines and as for my DNA, i wouldn't know it if it slapped me round the chops!

Say 10 years down the line your daughter/wife/son/husband/whatever has been sexually assualted/beaten up/burgled/mugged/etc etc but they never caught the person who did it. what if because of the introduction of ID cards and a database system to back it up, the person was caught within hours because they left their fingerprints/DNA at the scene. Is it still a bad thing then?

What if an imigrant who has crawled through the Tunnel (if i havent blown it up by then) tries to claim benefit/housing/health care, god for bid even tried to get a job, but can't because he/she cant provide an ID card which is proof of his British citizenship! providing we've got a Govt with a bit of backbone at the time, we could just turf them right back where they came from. Is the ID card still a bad idea then?

On joining the army i was provided with a military ID card that has my name, my DOB, my blood group, my photo and my signature! Is that an invasion of privacy? should i have said no?

So explain to me someone, please, why Govt ID cards is a problem and not just a little bit of plastic that could actually help crime and immigration in this country???
 
#2
You're a troll aren't you?
 
#4
1) Costs ME £100
2) My home was occupied by the NAZI's in WWII, who forced the same decision on us. Nazi's are bad.
 
#5
It would appear you picked an apt moniker.
 
#6
sarnian said:
1) Costs ME £100
2) My home was occupied by the NAZI's in WWII, who forced the same decision on us. Nazi's are bad.
1) What is it were to be free?
2)what????
 
#7
im_a_mong_cpl said:
sarnian said:
1) Costs ME £100
2) My home was occupied by the NAZI's in WWII, who forced the same decision on us. Nazi's are bad.
1) What is it were to be free?
2)what????
1) ID cards will be forged by criminals, just like our current forms of identification - passports, driving licenses and NI cards. Only law abiding citizens will lose out.

2) The body of evidence to suggest that ID cards will perform their intended function is weak at best. For issues like identity theft and terrorism they may actually make things worse.

3) Accept a compulsary ID card and this will make it easier for this government, or future governments, to further infringe upon our freedoms: "Well we already have ID cards so what's the harm in implanting chips into newborn babies so the government can monitor citizens and prevent crime".

4) To add insult to injury, this scheme will cost the taxpayer billions (over £5 billion estimated in next 10 years) and individuals around £100.

That's 2 minutes worth of reasons why ID cards are wrong.
 
#9
It'd be a cracking idea if it had a hope in hell of working. After all, how do you get one ? Using the current forms of ID that can be forged. And once you've got one by deceit the chances of being found out are far lower as everyone will trust the new card.

Plus it depends on the government successfully implementing a huge IT programme - they have never yet done that so why would this be different ?

The only people picked up for not carrying them would be confused old bats by bored coppers looking to fill their quotas of arrests. If I nip down the road a few hundred yards to get some milk and forget my card then why should I be open to arrest and imprisonment ? We're supposed to be a free country after all.
 
#10
Surely a driving licence is an ID card and most adults have one of those? As the photo licences gradually replace the old green or pink paper ones we will have de facto photo ID crds. After all in the US the Driver's Licence is the standard form of ID.

UQFEGD
 
#11
ID cards are all about Social Control.
The Gov't already meddles in far too many parts of our lives.
They can stick their £100 card :x
 
#12
They can stick their £300 card as well!

I am not having one. If enough people say "no" and refuse to have the card or pay the fine, then the system will collapse!
 
#14
MrPVRd said:
I am not having one. If enough people say "no" and refuse to have the card or pay the fine, then the system will collapse!
Indeed - but considering UKG's inability to purcahse & implement expensive integrated computer systems am pretty certain the system will collapse on its own anyway. here's hoping....

watch out - police state, here we come.

we all bitch and moan about the nanny-state; well it is only a halfway point!
 
#15
im_a_mong_cpl said:
What is so wrong with the idea of having a Government issued ID card?
Everything. The big question, is why should someone who is totally inncoent of ANY crimes / misdemeanors have to prove it?

If everyone was to have an ID card, it would stop underage kids being served alcohol, it would help tackle immigration,
DNA aside for now - we have passports and drivers licences.

in the long run with the inclusion of finger prints and possibly DNA being taken from everyone it would help reduce both minor and major crimes.
No. It would possibly help the detection of criminals. What about people who forge / steal ID Cards?


Why is it an invasion of privacy? What is your fingerprints and DNA to you? To me my fingerprints are a bunch of squiggly lines and as for my DNA, i wouldn't know it if it slapped me round the chops!
It is an invasion of your privacy. Do your local police station have all your phone numbers? If not why not? They could use it to discount you from making abusive / threatening calls. In addition GCHQ and the Security Service could monitor all your calls just in case. There is no reason why not, as you have nothing to hide. In fact, can you make sure your itemised billing and bank/credit card statements are sent to me. I want to check you are not a threat to national security. You have nothing to hide so I will expect them in the mail this week.

Say 10 years down the line your daughter/wife/son/husband/whatever has been sexually assualted/beaten up/burgled/mugged/etc etc but they never caught the person who did it. what if because of the introduction of ID cards and a database system to back it up, the person was caught within hours because they left their fingerprints/DNA at the scene. Is it still a bad thing then?
This is a scaremongering tactic. It is still a bad thing. Bad things can occasionally do good, but it still a bad thing.

What if an ex of yours has kept a condom of your semen and this is found at a crime scene. The new "gold standard" of policing means you have no way of defending yourself and spend the rest of your life in jail.

What if a corrupt law enforcement agent manipulates the data to make it look like you are a wanted terrorist so that his terrorist paymaster can evade capture. You have no way of defending yourself and spend the rest of your life in Cuba talking to sceptics.

What if an imigrant who has crawled through the Tunnel (if i havent blown it up by then) tries to claim benefit/housing/health care, god for bid even tried to get a job, but can't because he/she cant provide an ID card which is proof of his British citizenship! providing we've got a Govt with a bit of backbone at the time, we could just turf them right back where they came from. Is the ID card still a bad idea then?
Yes. Ask for his passport.

On joining the army i was provided with a military ID card that has my name, my DOB, my blood group, my photo and my signature! Is that an invasion of privacy? should i have said no?
No you chose to join the army. It wasnt a job that was forced upon you. You dont have to present the Army ID card to anyone outside the military and if you choose, you can walk the streets without it. Do you see how the choice here is totally different.

I can walk through a supermarket without my ID card. It is my choice. In a given day the ONLY people who ever see my Army ID are the security guards letting me into camp. When I leave the Army, I will never have to carry a form of ID I dont wish to. If I want to go out and be annoymous I can be.

Anonymity is essential to people. Look how many people post here with their real names and service details...... Why is that do you think?

So explain to me someone, please, why Govt ID cards is a problem and not just a little bit of plastic that could actually help crime and immigration in this country???
Because it is a false flag.

It will not reduce crime and may not even make much of a difference to finding criminals after the act. We already have sufficient proof of ID to reduce immigration if that was the desire.

ID cards are sold to the public in a smoke and mirrors campaign playing on basic (often unfounded) fears. If even enforced they would create a situation where corrupt government officials, or simply errors in procedure could cost people their liberty with little or no checks and balances.

I have seen you post on the Int Corps section, so I assume you are in the corps - you must know how often "mistakes" happen inside the machines of national security. People lose files, misplace reports etc. Imagine doing that with a CD Rom containing a million peoples DNA profiles.

In a nutshell, ID cards seem innocuous and to an extent they are. However, what is liberty if we dont even have the choice of what we carry in our pockets. For as far back as the "UK" history goes we have prided ourselves in not being a policed state. You think this should change?
 
#16
I think it's already a police state. With all these new "anti terrorist" powers the police have, the situation has changed entirely. I used to feel safe when I saw a police car drive by, but now I feel guilty, even if i've done nothing wrong.

The situation is bad enough as it is. I get stopped by the police at least once or twice a week. If I go out drinking I pretty much expect to get searched.

The other night I went for a run - alright, it was half 2 in the morning, but I was stopped mid workout by a police car complete with flashing blue lights, and made to give my name and address and defend what I was doing.

I was stopped randomly by the police on my motorbike at around the same time another night. I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong, but I was given a producer to take to my nearest police station - 8 miles away - because I wasn't carrying my registration certificate.

I was in a mate's car in the corner of a car park, messing about with a little plastic bb gun, pointing it at a wall. It fired those little plastic bb's, but we didn't even have any. We were just sat there waiting for someone - still, a copper saw us and the police turned up en masse and arrested us both for "posession of a firearm, immitation or otherwise". We were both then locked up for a bit before finally being cautioned and given a bollocking for having scared the public... Personally, i've been playing with toy guns since I was I don't know how old, and it's never been a problem before.

I took a ride home from a club not long ago with a mate, and we were stopped and pulled over. Apparently the mate had swapped his number plates on his car around, which was stupid. But I was then arrested on "suspiscion of vehicle theft" and locked up for 20 hours, missing work the next day. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

There was a time when kids caught smashing bottles in a car park would have gotten a clip around the head and a bollocking, run away, and probably never done it again. Nowadays, those same kids would be arrested, locked up in the police station, before no doubt being given an official caution and let go, but only once their finger prints and DNA had been taken.

The point to this is, this isn't a "free country" any more. "Tough policing" by police who are too tightly controlled by official arrest procedures etc. has turned this country into an opressed police state. I don't see how a mandatory ID card is going to help the situation - it's just one more weapon which can be used by the government to control the population. In my opinion, it's paramount to putting each and every single person in the UK on the sex offender's register.
 
#17
spindler said:
DNA aside for now - we have passports and drivers licences.
And If some one dosen't have or need either? All of my imediate family (Bar one person) don't have either of those items. And it's a bloody pain trying to convince people that you're who you say you are.

One bank required anyone over the age of 20 to have those or a benfit book to prove who they where. People under 20 could use their Birth certificate, So I aksed if I could use mine as proof, they refused.

I like the idea of Id cards personaly, however as other's have said, this is trully the govenment of the Techonophobes.
 
#18
It's hard enough getting members of the armed forces (on pain of disciplinary action) to carry and safeguard their ID when they should, so what hope is there of getting the entire adult population of Britain to do so?

Of course, the more socially responsible would probably diligently carry an ID card, but the criminals, the dross and anyone else with good reason to hide their identity (or who simply couldn't be @rsed), would say they'd lost it and spent the benefit cheque for the replacement on ciggies. Compulsory ID cards are, therefore, a none starter.

The idea of an entitlement card, however, has some merit. If you can't produce it, you can't have whatever you're trying to obtain or claim. Again though, I think the downwardly mobile would simply say they'd lost their card and the good old welfare state would step in to assist.

I don't really have any great objection to ID cards on civil liberty grounds. I just don't believe such cards would be the great panacea to all the ills of society that they are being touted as.
 
#19
RFUK said:
I think it's already a police state. With all these new "anti terrorist" powers the police have, the situation has changed entirely. I used to feel safe when I saw a police car drive by, but now I feel guilty, even if i've done nothing wrong.

The situation is bad enough as it is. I get stopped by the police at least once or twice a week. If I go out drinking I pretty much expect to get searched.

The other night I went for a run - alright, it was half 2 in the morning, but I was stopped mid workout by a police car complete with flashing blue lights, and made to give my name and address and defend what I was doing.

I was stopped randomly by the police on my motorbike at around the same time another night. I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong, but I was given a producer to take to my nearest police station - 8 miles away - because I wasn't carrying my registration certificate.

I was in a mate's car in the corner of a car park, messing about with a little plastic bb gun, pointing it at a wall. It fired those little plastic bb's, but we didn't even have any. We were just sat there waiting for someone - still, a copper saw us and the police turned up en masse and arrested us both for "posession of a firearm, immitation or otherwise". We were both then locked up for a bit before finally being cautioned and given a bollocking for having scared the public... Personally, i've been playing with toy guns since I was I don't know how old, and it's never been a problem before.

I took a ride home from a club not long ago with a mate, and we were stopped and pulled over. Apparently the mate had swapped his number plates on his car around, which was stupid. But I was then arrested on "suspiscion of vehicle theft" and locked up for 20 hours, missing work the next day. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

There was a time when kids caught smashing bottles in a car park would have gotten a clip around the head and a bollocking, run away, and probably never done it again. Nowadays, those same kids would be arrested, locked up in the police station, before no doubt being given an official caution and let go, but only once their finger prints and DNA had been taken.

The point to this is, this isn't a "free country" any more. "Tough policing" by police who are too tightly controlled by official arrest procedures etc. has turned this country into an opressed police state. I don't see how a mandatory ID card is going to help the situation - it's just one more weapon which can be used by the government to control the population. In my opinion, it's paramount to putting each and every single person in the UK on the sex offender's register.
Thats a bit rough on you, have you got a Swastika tatooed on your forehead or something.

You are right though as a young man i do feel like the long flabby arm of the law chooses to look at me more closely than others.

Those producers are a right pain the Arse i once had to nearly cancel a holiday to sort it all out. Taking it to the right Police station.

I just had a friend join the Police and he is a knacker, so my tolerance/respect for them has dwindled.
 
#20
RFUK said:
The other night I went for a run - alright, it was half 2 in the morning, but I was stopped mid workout by a police car complete with flashing blue lights, and made to give my name and address and defend what I was doing.


I was in a mate's car in the corner of a car park, messing about with a little plastic bb gun,

I took a ride home from a club not long ago with a mate, and we were stopped and pulled over. Apparently the mate had swapped his number plates on his car around, which was stupid. But I was then arrested on "suspiscion of vehicle theft" and locked up for 20 hours, missing work the next day. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I think the rozzers did right to stop you a 02:30 hrs

In some places pointing anything that looks like a gun out of a car will get you shot, it's f*cking idiots like you playing with guns that give everyone who is sensible about it a bad name and bad press.

And it seems you mix with ********* who can't understand why they get pulled up after they f*ck about with number plates.
 

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