Government Gaslighting us - yes or no?

[Steamboat]

UK has no equivalent of a tax withholding table.

However as an idea in 2019 the NHS per person for the year in the UK cost roughly $4700, compared to a US per person cost of $11000.

US is roughly 40% more costly per person than the next most expensive, Switzerland. The UK is something like 13th to 15th, depending on the analysis.

I understand that aspect, but I would need a withholding table to compare what I pay in insurance what would be deducted from the wife’s paycheck and mine.
We get bombarded with many unnecessary tests, and in some cases care can be Ponzi scheme by those that provide it.

 

[psychobabble]

I understand that aspect, but I would need a withholding table to compare what I pay in insurance what would be deducted from the wife’s paycheck and mine.
We get bombarded with many unnecessary tests, and in some cases care can be Ponzi scheme by those that provide it.

So just to reinforce it, and your post makes no difference to this, the UK system costs less than half per head of population than the US system, which contradicts your claim completely.

 

[Steamboat]

So just to reinforce it, and your post makes no difference to this, the UK system costs less than half per head of population than the US system, which contradicts your claim completely.

Cost per person is an average. I want cost per individual to pay for it. The UK system might be cheaper but that comes with trade offs.

 

[endure]

Cost per person is an average. I want cost per individual to pay for it. The UK system might be cheaper but that comes with trade offs.

What does cost per individual have to do with it? You're buying insurance which, by definition, is a group risk.

 

[Steamboat]

What does cost per individual have to do with it? You're buying insurance which, by definition, is a group risk.

Because my wife and I would both be taxed in the UK. Where as I am the only paying for coverage for my family.

 

[gaijin]

Maybe people care to take their chances? You don’t get to opt out of taxes

But the US government still spends more, per capita, on health care, than any other country in the world.

US National Health Expenditure grew 9.7% to $4.1 trillion in 2020, or $12,530 per person, and accounted for 19.7% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

In the UK health expenditure is approx. GBP2600 per head (2019). Less than half of that comes out of income tax.

Despite this, even fully insured people in the USA risk bankruptcy if they become sick.

In 2018, the average insulin prices in the US was $98.70, compared to $6.94 in Australia, $12.00 in Canada, and $7.52 in the UK. The money spent on healthcare (both public and private funds) in the US is going to the wrong places.

 

[Steamboat]

But the US government still spends more, per capita, on health care, than any other country in the world.

US National Health Expenditure grew 9.7% to $4.1 trillion in 2020, or $12,530 per person, and accounted for 19.7% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

In the UK health expenditure is approx. GBP2600 per head (2019). Less than half of that comes out of income tax.

Despite this, even fully insured people in the USA risk bankruptcy if they become sick.

In 2018, the average insulin prices in the US was $98.70, compared to $6.94 in Australia, $12.00 in Canada, and $7.52 in the UK. The money spent on healthcare (both public and private funds) in the US is going to the wrong places.

I think we are getting a bit mixed up on what the Feds spend and what the US as a country spends.

American Health Care: Health Spending and the Federal Budget | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

The United States spends more on health care than any other country in the world, and a large share of that spending comes from the federal government.

www.crfb.org

I do agree that our drug prices are out of touch and much can be done about that.

 

[endure]

Because my wife and I would both be taxed in the UK. Where as I am the only paying for coverage for my family.

You're only taxed if you work. If your wife weren't working she wouldn't pay tax but she'd still have full NHS cover in the same way that everyone who is entitled to NHS treatment is regardless of whether they're working or not.

 

[Drazyl]

Because my wife and I would both be taxed in the UK. Where as I am the only paying for coverage for my family.

This is a slightly flawed view. If you are paying, for your specific circumstance, less than the UK average, someone else in the US is paying even more than the average to balance it out.

It would be a bit like taking what my daughter pays in to the NHS instead of what I do - she's getting health cover far cheaper than you are, but irrelevant in any comparison of systems.

 

[mrdude]

You're only taxed if you work. If your wife weren't working she wouldn't pay tax but she'd still have full NHS cover in the same way that everyone who is entitled to NHS treatment is regardless of whether they're working or not.

Bollocks, you get taxed every time you spend any money on anything. Plus the stuff you buy has been taxed before you even buy it (essentially taxed at least twice). So even though the wife is not directly paying tax from the wages that her husband earned (which has already been taxed and NI contributions taken out), if she spends a penny from those wages she is also taxed, that money goes into a pot and pays from the NHS.

 

[tommikka]

Bollocks, you get taxed every time you spend any money on anything. Plus the stuff you buy has been taxed before you even buy it (essentially taxed at least twice).

‘Twice’ (and thrice etc) only covers the top up from trade prices along the way and to retail.

Billy’s widgets only pays the difference to the taxman —- unless of course his accountant balances his accounts and has nil to virtually nil net VAT after investing in a new van, tools, overalls, signs ….

 

[Steamboat]

This is a slightly flawed view. If you are paying, for your specific circumstance, less than the UK average, someone else in the US is paying even more than the average to balance it out.

It would be a bit like taking what my daughter pays in to the NHS instead of what I do - she's getting health cover far cheaper than you are, but irrelevant in any comparison of systems.

Slightly flawed??
Bottom line up front which system would cost me less to participate in.
My wife alone makes damn near six figures, and it is why I work in government. I pay for health insurance, retirement, a significant amount of taxes.

 

[Drazyl]

Slightly flawed??
Bottom line up front which system would cost me less to participate in.
My wife alone makes damn near six figures, and it is why I work in government. I pay for health insurance, retirement, a significant amount of taxes.

Yes. Flawed.

My daughter gets health cover and this year will probably pay about £20 for it. That's £20 for the year, just to be clear.

 

[Steamboat]

Yes. Flawed.

My daughter gets health cover and this year will probably pay about £20 for it. That's £20 for the year, just to be clear.

I would gather your daughter is starting out in her earning career?

 

[endure]

Bollocks, you get taxed every time you spend any money on anything. Plus the stuff you buy has been taxed before you even buy it (essentially taxed at least twice).

You don't understand how VAT works do you?

 

[Steamboat]

You're only taxed if you work. If your wife weren't working she wouldn't pay tax but she'd still have full NHS cover in the same way that everyone who is entitled to NHS treatment is regardless of whether they're working or not.

But how many UK families only have one working parent?

 

[Drazyl]

I would gather your daughter is starting out in her earning career?

I think you're beginning to understand why you have to look at the system not an individual data point.

 

[Steamboat]

I think you're beginning to understand why you have to look at the system not an individual data point.

Well for her age group it makes sense financially. The wife and I are entering our prime earning years, so some financial planning is a must. Double paying for insurance would be a damn dumb idea.

 

[tommikka]

Slightly flawed??
Bottom line up front which system would cost me less to participate in.
My wife alone makes damn near six figures, and it is why I work in government. I pay for health insurance, retirement, a significant amount of taxes.

Bottom line should be ‘which system will cost me less whilst providing the services I require’ - taking into account what may or may not happen

I pay for my pension, taxes which includes my share of funding the NHS, life insurance and I also where applicable am covered in my car insurance for private medical care (eg private health care consultation & x rays as result of an accident) and I used to have loss of earnings and body parts insured as part of my hobby’s national bodies membership subscription (I switched to the uninsured level when it became an option as all my subscription went to them & I had double or treble cover through everything else)

I’ve used car (and motorbike) insurance medical cover following a couple of accidents, but ultimately the other parties insurers footed the bill
And after many years of minimal doctors attendance, a couple a years back I took my lifetimes share of NHS services

 

[Steamboat]

Bottom line should be ‘which system will cost me less whilst providing the services I require’ - taking into account what may or may not happen

I pay for my pension, taxes which includes my share of funding the NHS, life insurance and I also where applicable am covered in my car insurance for private medical care (eg private health care consultation & x rays as result of an accident) and I used to have loss of earnings and body parts insured as part of my hobby’s national bodies membership subscription (I switched to the uninsured level when it became an option as all my subscription went to them & I had double or treble cover through everything else)

I’ve used car (and motorbike) insurance medical cover following a couple of accidents, but ultimately the other parties insurers footed the bill
And after many years of minimal doctors attendance, a couple a years back I took my lifetimes share of NHS services

Which is why I provide my three with insurance. It is at least for now a “Cadillac” plan. If legislature screws with it in the future State government is about finished. But on the bright side my health insurance plan decreased in price by about 8-9 percent for this year.