Government admits rendition flights

[rockape34]

HERE

Government admits rendition flights
pa.press.net - 21.02.2008 15:08
Gordon Brown has expressed "disappointment" after the Government was forced to admit that US special rendition flights had twice landed on British soil - despite repeated assurances to the contrary.

The Prime Minister said he was determined to put safeguards in place so that similar incidents could not happen in future.

Speaking in Brussels, Mr Brown said: "The US has expressed regret that it did not admit at the time to these renditions through Diego Garcia. We have got to assure ourselves that these procedures will never happen again."

Mr Brown told reporters that it was "obviously a very serious issue", saying: "We share the disappointment that everybody has about what's actually happened."

The Premier's comments came after Foreign Secretary David Miliband apologised to Parliament on behalf of the Government for providing inaccurate information.

Mr Miliband said in a Commons statement that on two occasions in 2002 US flights carrying terrorist suspects stopped to refuel at the airbase on the British Indian Ocean territory of Diego Garcia.

He told MPs that US officials informed the UK last week of the flights, which took place contrary to earlier assurances given by the Americans. Mr Miliband said his concern about the case was shared by US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice.

"We both agree that the mistakes made in these two cases are not acceptable and she shares my deep regret that this information has only just come to light," he said.

Mr Miliband told the Commons he was "very sorry indeed" to have to correct previous statements made by then prime minister Tony Blair and foreign secretary Jack Straw that rendition flights had not used British bases.

He said the cases involving Diego Garcia had not come to light before because of an "error" in an earlier US records search. Mr Miliband said that in each of the two cases, the aircraft involved had been carrying a single detainee - neither of them British - who did not leave the plane while it was on the ground at Diego Garcia.

...surely not more dissembling by our glorious leaders ...

 

[The_Cad]

Pity we couldn't rendition Browns and Millibands sleazy arrse to Gitmo.

Bigger danger to the UK than AQ the pair of them.

 

[blue-sophist]

Breaking news ... "Tony Blair and Jack Straw have lied".

Still, it was the old regime, and we're very sorry.
New-New-Labour apologises for the failings of Old-New-Labour.
US regrets taking the pi66 out of "Best Buddy Nation" by staging flights through DG and not telling anyone.

Anyone surprised?

And they did it all the time anyway, so, moving on ...
Arsene Wenger was disappointed in his team's latest result ....

 

[still21inmymind]

So they lied. Hands up who is really surprised.

 

[blue-sophist]

So they lied. Hands up who is really surprised.

...

I'm really surprised it was only twice ...

 

[smartascarrots]

So you think they only owned up because someone was about to break the story, then? No, they did it out of respect for the truth and because it was the right thing to do, I tell you!

Excuse me, I'm just off to Hartlepool to buy some exploding trousers.

Peep.

 

[blue-sophist]

They owned up because otherwise Mohammered Fayled was going to accuse HRH DofE of piloting the flights.

Obvious, innit.

 

[lsquared]

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with' 'so-called' rendition flights'?

At a tangent, can anyone tell me what is wrong with 'bugging' an MP whilst talking to a man accused of 'terrorist activity'. Especially, as it is reported that the two men have known each other since childhood, and, one of them has been refused permission to remain in the USA beyond a matter of days.

If we are to defeat the filth masquerading as 'jihadists', then every effort must be employed. (Unless of course, you are a limp-wristed pinko liberal twat).

 

[Technocratic_Turbine]

US regrets taking the pi66 out of "Best Buddy Nation" by staging flights through DG and not telling anyone.

I wouldn't be surprised if even the US administration (being inept as they are) weren't aware of the CIA doing this. Annoys me that the US is allowed to get away with this crap.

Perhaps it's about time MI6 set up some 'sub stations' on the US mainland and started playing around in their country.

Jingoistic prigs.

 

[slipperman]

Nothing wrong with the principle behind rendition flights as far as I am concerned - nor water boarding!
As for the Government telling porkies? Never!

 

[mac1]

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with' 'so-called' rendition flights'?

At a tangent, can anyone tell me what is wrong with 'bugging' an MP whilst talking to a man accused of 'terrorist activity'. Especially, as it is reported that the two men have known each other since childhood, and, one of them has been refused permission to remain in the USA beyond a matter of days.

If we are to defeat the filth masquerading as 'jihadists', then every effort must be employed. (Unless of course, you are a limp-wristed pinko liberal t**t).

good points.

 

[mad_mac]

Nothing wrong with the principle behind rendition flights as far as I am concerned - nor water boarding!

As a country which prides itself on being a model of freedom and democracy this admission is hugely embarrassing to the Government.

You ask what is wrong with rendition.

Rendition and extraordinary rendition are terms for transporting a suspect from a third country either back to the US, or on to a third country, outside normal extradition procedures. The practice has provoked international concern that detainees could be tortured in the countries to which they are sent.

Under UK law, it is illegal for British officials even to acquiesce in the face of torture, anywhere in the world.

Rendition should only be granted if the Government are satisfied that the rendition would accord with UK law and our international obligations.

The fundamental principal of law is the presumption of innocence over guilt. A burden of proof must be established to deny an individual the status of being innocent.

To be effectively kidnapped and sent to another country for torture without due process of law is illegal. If you cannot see the problem with this procedure then perhaps you would be happy to impose a UK self styled Ministerium für Staatssicherheit (Stasi).

I would respectfully suggest that we are no better than the tin pot dictatorships we look down our collective noses at, if we allow this procedure to be carried out.

Our model of democracy will have been compromised into an unrecognisable authoritarian regime.

I have an uneasy feeling that this information is being drip fed to the electorate to gauge the mood of public apathy. If there is no “hue and cry” more revelations will follow including the use of Prestwick Airport.

This has occurred despite strenuous denials by Bliar and Straw, who have once again demonstrated that:

They have blatantly lied to Parliament.

They were not aware of the situation, which must point to the fact that they are grossly incompetent and are unaware of illegal activities occurring on their watch. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

This embarrassing episode should force both Bliar and Straw into the political wilderness, and they should not be courted as political celebrity but rather as criminal incompetents.

 

[Ord_Sgt]

I suspect this is more to do with the yanks collating the data not knowing that Diego Garcia is British Territory and so didn't disclose the details than our pollies lying. In no way supporting this current bunch of chancers and losers in any way though.

 

[blue-sophist]

Incompetence is still no excuse.

And Bliar and Straw lied [again and again and again .... ] and in this case were found to have no forking clue what was going on, as Mad Mac said, on their watch.

Harrumph. And cnuts, as I'm feeling quite grumpy at the moment.

 

[Technocratic_Turbine]

They have blatantly lied to Parliament.

They were not aware of the situation, which must point to the fact that they are grossly incompetent and are unaware of illegal activities occurring on their watch. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

This embarrassing episode should force both Bliar and Straw into the political wilderness, and they should not be courted as political celebrity but rather as criminal incompetents.

I'm not an apologist for Blair or Straw but some of what you said there smacks of hyperbole but it's your right. Seems to me they had no clue and the only comment I saw from Blair on the matter was "As far as I'm aware" which wouldn't make him a liar. Unusually I'll side with the politicians and think it unusual to label them incompetent if they were not made aware of these rendition flights by the relevent authorities. I.e. MI6, Navy/RAF??

 

[mad_mac]

I'm not an apologist for Blair or Straw but some of what you said there smacks of hyperbole but it's your right. Seems to me they had no clue and the only comment I saw from Blair on the matter was "As far as I'm aware" which wouldn't make him a liar. Unusually I'll side with the politicians and think it unusual to label them incompetent if they were not made aware of these rendition flights by the relevant authorities. I.e. MI6, Navy/RAF??

Your statement is paradoxical. There is nothing hyperbolic about my statement. Let`s examine the facts:

12th Dec 2005 BBC News

Mr Straw told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Careful research has been unable to identify any occasion... when we have received a request for permission by the United States for a rendition through the United Kingdom territory or airspace.

21st Dec 2005 BBC News

Tony Blair has ruled out an inquiry into claims that the CIA has used UK airports to move prisoners to third countries where they may be tortured.

He said he had no evidence to suggest that anything illegal had happened. Mr Blair added that he did not want to "add fuel" to stories about the practice, which is known as "extraordinary rendition".

Speaking at his monthly Downing Street press conference on Wednesday, Mr Blair said: "I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that anything illegal has been happening here at all.

"I am not going to start ordering inquiries into this, that or the next thing when I have got no evidence to show whether this is right or not."

Bliar televised article 21st Dec 2005

I, I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that anything illegal has been happening here at all, and I'm not going to start ordering inquires into this, that and the next thing when I've got no evidence to show whether this is right or not - and I honestly, and you know, it's like all this stuff about camps in Europe or something - I don't know, I've never heard of such a thing.

I can't tell you whether such a thing exists - because, er - I don't know.

20th Jan 2006 BBC News

In his statement, Mr Straw said he had already given MPs all the information he had about US requests to use British airspace or airport facilities for "extraordinary rendition".

"We have found no evidence of detainees being rendered through the UK or overseas territory since 11 September 2001," said Mr Straw.

"We have found no evidence of detainees being rendered through the UK or overseas territory since 1997 where there were substantial grounds to believe there was a real risk of torture."

If the excuse of “as far as I am aware” is legitimate in a court of law in the UK, perhaps more people should be let off their criminal activities by using this phrase in their defence.

Speeder: Sorry officer, as far as I was aware the speed limit was 40 MPH.

PC: Oh that`s OK then, just be sure that you are aware the limit is 30MPH.

(PC hangs head and saunters to panda car despondent as he is unable to fulfil his Home Office crime quota).

A facetious example but it enforces the point.

If Straw as Foreign Secretary and Bliar as Prime Minister were unaware, who the feck is making the decisions, and where is Parliamentary oversight?

Have we been governed by MI6/Navy/RAF for years (as you suggest) and are holding elections purely for theatrics. I refuse to believe this is the situation. Intelligence in National Security matters is accountable to Government. Perhaps the Navy could allocate themselves a bigger slice of GDP for their carriers.

This situation is either:

That Straw and Bliar genuinely did not know, in which case, have demonstrably displayed an unfathomable degree of political ineptness and incompetence and should never be placed in such an important position again.

Straw and Bliar colluded to either directly lie or deliberately mislead Parliament about factual events that they had knowledge of.

No hyperbole here, just plain facts.

I`m sure over the coming weeks more evidence will come to light over more rendition flights.

 

[Busta-Gut]

It's a big "whoopty ti do, so what" in my books.

All of you tossers who cry "it's not fair" should get your arrses on a plane to an insurgent camp that has beheaded Americans & British citizens and tell them to stop "coz it's not right".

You wouldn't last 5 minutes before we'd see your mugs on youtube.

 

[lanky]

Nothing wrong with the principle behind rendition flights as far as I am concerned - nor water boarding!
As for the Government telling porkies? Never!

The Nazis and Japanese who used water boarding in WW2 were executed by the Allies... do you really want our government to be associated with the practices of the Nazis??? It is not holding someone under water, but pouring water into the lungs.

From the Telegraph:

'Careful research has been unable to identify any occasion since 11 September 2001, or earlier in the Bush administration, when we received a request for permission by the United States for a rendition through UK territory or airspace, nor are we otherwise aware of such a case.’ Jack Straw, December 2005

'The US would not render a detainee through UK territory or airspace without our permission.' Jack Straw, January 2006

'I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that anything illegal has been happening here at all.' Tony Blair, December 2005

'The US authorities have given assurances that no terrorist suspects have passed through Diego Garcia.' Lord Malloch Brown, Foreign Office Minister: July 2007

I thinks that Straw and Mallach Brown must be fired in disgrace and the pair of them, and blair, banned from any public office. I can;t see the EU wanting Bliar for President!

We need a full independant investigation, not one by the usual suspects.

 

[mad_mac]

It's a big "whoopty ti do, so what" in my books.

All of you tossers who cry "it's not fair" should get your arrses on a plane to an insurgent camp that has beheaded Americans & British citizens and tell them to stop "coz it's not right".

You wouldn't last 5 minutes before we'd see your mugs on youtube.

So, that makes it alright in your book then.

You would advocate a Government that agrees to torture, trial without jury, and the presumption of guilt over innocence, while displaying an adeptness at lying to the people.

Perhaps we should adopt the same tactics as the extremists to deter them, and to hell with the principles of freedom and democracy. We become no better than them, and the terrorists have won by changing the face of our democracy to a Western dictatorship.

A well thought out and presented argument

 

[Busta-Gut]

It's a big "whoopty ti do, so what" in my books.

All of you tossers who cry "it's not fair" should get your arrses on a plane to an insurgent camp that has beheaded Americans & British citizens and tell them to stop "coz it's not right".

You wouldn't last 5 minutes before we'd see your mugs on youtube.

So, that makes it alright in your book then.

You would advocate a Government that agrees to torture, trial without jury, and the presumption of guilt over innocence, while displaying an adeptness at lying to the people.

Perhaps we should adopt the same tactics as the extremists to deter them, and to hell with the principles of freedom and democracy. We become no better than them, and the terrorists have won by changing the face of our democracy to a Western dictatorship.

A well thought out and presented argument

I rest my case: All of you tossers who cry "it's not fair" should get your arrses on a plane to an insurgent camp that has beheaded Americans & British citizens and tell them to stop "coz it's not right".