Gott im Himmel!

#41
Rommel's career success was purely as a result his military capabilities and not for being a 'Party-man' (unlike many of his contemporaries). There is little doubt that Rommel was vain and took advantage of the opportunities provided him by the War. As to whether this was politically motivated, I would say not.
Im not sure if Adolf knew much about his military capabilities prior to 1939 other than he was a good instructor.

In Rommel's case, his relationship with the Nazi Party perhaps began in 1937 when he was appointed liaison officer to the Hitler Youth. Through this position he came into close contact with many important Nazis. Rommel caught the attention of Hitler, who did much to support Rommel’s career. Hitler’s choice of Rommel as commander of Hitler’s bodyguard in 1939 and quick rise in rank demonstrated Hitler’s confidence in him. Rommel too liked Hitler and appreciated the preferential treatment he (Rommel) received, noting that “[Hitler] is extraordinarily friendly to me.

Erwin Rommel
 
#42
An excellent, inspirational quote in my opinion, which they could well take on board, instead of taking offence at every opportunity. Tossers.
Maybe they could try a quote from someone they have undoubtedly heard of.

Education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.

It's from a certain Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin.

He's got a few others they might like as well:

The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.

It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.

Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem.

The only real power comes out of a long rifle.

I hope the above will inspire the students of Exeter to greatness!
 
#43
To associate him with the Nazi regime, when he was actually part of the plot to bring down Hitler is ludicrous, but yet another example of some elements in our Universities trying to re-invent History to suit their own liberal agendas.
To associate him with the regime whose overthrow of the democratic republic he supported isn't.

To conflate 'a staff member didn't recognise the name' with 'academics don't know who Rommel is' is genuinely ludicrous. To chuck in a dig at those who oppose Brexit on the basis of such a blatant falsehood doubly so.
 
#44
One cannot permit unique opportunities to slip by for the sake of trifles” - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel "


What about custard tarts........ I never let the opportunity of a custard tart slip by ?
 

Goatman

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#46
If you ever have the chance to visit Poland, and in particular, Warsaw, you will find plaques all over the city where Polish people have been massacred
Ditto Paris.

Despite the best efforts of those who fervently believe in the Red Army as the only saviour of Western Europe, Nazi atrocities were not exclusive to Ostland.

Oradour is only the most well known.

The French plaques tend to just refer to ' German soldiers ' -the phrase usually seen is ' Ici tombez six/quinze/trente/ Resistants, Massacre par les Allemands'
 
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#47
everyone in Germany had a idea what what the Nazis were like prior to WW2
It would probably have sounded like a really, really good idea at the time, to a very large section of any population living in the circumstances of the day. I doubt that the general public were kept abreast of the numbers of Jews gassed daily in the Berliner Zeitung, although they would be informed of the great advances in autobahn-building etc.
Incidentally, the worst rewriters of history are always socialists, national or otherwise.
 
#49
#50
It would probably have sounded like a really, really good idea at the time, to a very large section of any population living in the circumstances of the day. I doubt that the general public were kept abreast of the numbers of Jews gassed daily in the Berliner Zeitung, although they would be informed of the great advances in autobahn-building etc.
Incidentally, the worst rewriters of history are always socialists, national or otherwise.
They would have seen Jews dragged out of their homes and arrested, unless Rommel was on his holidays when Kristallnacht occurred, him (and the rest of the boxheads) had a fairly good idea what the Nazis were like.
 
#51
They would have seen Jews dragged out of their homes and arrested, unless Rommel was on his holidays when Kristallnacht occurred, him (and the rest of the boxheads) had a fairly good idea what the Nazis were like.
Indeed, and having been subject to a great deal of the Twitter of the day, probably thought it a Good Thing.
 
#52
They would have seen Jews dragged out of their homes and arrested, unless Rommel was on his holidays when Kristallnacht occurred, him (and the rest of the boxheads) had a fairly good idea what the Nazis were like.
Rommel In October 38 was put in charge of the Fuhrer escort unit in Berlin during the time of Kristallnacht
 
#53
Despite the best efforts of those who fervently believe in the Red Army as the only saviour of Western Europe, Nazi atrocities were not exclusive to Ostland.
My wifes' cousin (a Brit) is married to a German woman.They live in Germany.She remembers her family and friends all being terrified of the Russians as their reputation as evil and cruel bastards preceded them.
 

Goatman

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#54
The references to Rommel being "politically naive" are not about his general support for the Nazis or knowledge of what they were up to, but for his apparent inability - relative to his high rank and honours - to play the military/political system (and, most specifically, Hitler himself) in order to gain advantage for his command. Most of the Nazi military hierarchy were quite good at this - it was how they became hierarchy in the first place - but Rommel, promoted on the back of battlefield achievement, never seems to have learned the game.

E.g. he lost Hitler's ear about North Africa, which in turn arguably led to the defeat there. In trying to "kick up a fuss", he misplayed it badly and got convalescence leave instead of resources. A similar pattern emerged in France, where he was consistently outplayed by his fellow generals.
General Kurt Student who led the Luftwaffe's fighting arm was similarly cast aside after the butchers bill for Op Mercure. The fact that his direct boss was the Fat Man also didn't help. He too was a career officer who had a distinguished career as a pilot in WW1. He was later tried at Nuremberg but received a light sentence. Died in 1978.
 

Sixty

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#55
The Daily Mail lionising a supporter of Hitler? I'm off for a wee lie down to recover.
 

Helm

MIA
Book Reviewer
#56
My wifes' cousin (a Brit) is married to a German woman.They live in Germany.She remembers her family and friends all being terrified of the Russians as their reputation as evil and cruel bastards preceded them.
I wonder why? After all, Germany was the very model of decorum, when they invaded Russia.
 
#57
He enthusiastically did the Nazi government's' bidding whilst there were batons and medals being handed out. Poland, Belgium France, etc., didn't invade themselves, you know.
Indeed. I suspect that Rommel's aversion to Hitler was born once he saw the defeat of Germany looming. With Adolf out of the way the plotters hoped to negotiate a 1918 type truce with Germany more or less intact.


If you ever have the chance to visit Poland, and in particular, Warsaw, you will find plaques all over the city where Polish people have been massacred. None of the plaques refer to "Germans" or "Nazis", but all of them refer to "Hitlerites".
Possibly because those doing the massacring weren't Germans or Nazis. The locals in these places availed themselves of the opportunity for a bit of ethnic cleansing and property redistribution.
 
#58
Possibly because those doing the massacring weren't Germans or Nazis. The locals in these places availed themselves of the opportunity for a bit of ethnic cleansing and property redistribution.
What, always?
 
#59
I’m aware of that and not defending him, but when he fully realised the sheer scale of the horror he was a part of, he tried to do the decent thing and plotted against Hitler. I suspect if he’d lived to appear at Nuremberg, he would not have received the death penalty.
I agree that he would have come through unscathed as far as war crimes are concerned had he survived.
However, he never actively plotted against Hitler and the best that can be said is that he knew about it and did nothing which I believe was the primary basis of the accusations against him.
Like von Stauffenberg he was happy to go along with Hitler's successes and also like von Stauffenberg he showed no distaste for the anti-Jewish measures of the 3rd Reich.
Unlike von Stauffenberg he did virtually nothing when he realised the game was up and as we all know history has been changed to make him more acceptable.
This is mainly down to a former British Army officer who wrote a very favourable biography of him after the war and Konrad Adenhauer the German Chancellor who needed a true (and clean) German military hero prior the the establishment of the nascent Bundeswehr in 1955.
He was a good soldier no doubt, but he definitely was a tacit supporter of Nazism at best.
 
#60
I agree that he would have come through unscathed as far as war crimes are concerned had he survived.
However, he never actively plotted against Hitler and the best that can be said is that he knew about it and did nothing which I believe was the primary basis of the accusations against him.
Like von Stauffenberg he was happy to go along with Hitler's successes and also like von Stauffenberg he showed no distaste for the anti-Jewish measures of the 3rd Reich.
Unlike von Stauffenberg he did virtually nothing when he realised the game was up and as we all know history has been changed to make him more acceptable.
This is mainly down to a former British Army officer who wrote a very favourable biography of him after the war and Konrad Adenhauer the German Chancellor who needed a true (and clean) German military hero prior the the establishment of the nascent Bundeswehr in 1955.
He was a good soldier no doubt, but he definitely was a tacit supporter of Nazism at best.
Whilst the thread subject matter has (inevitably!) drifted away from the issue I originally highlighted, I’m pleased with the way it has now evolved into a debate on the cult of personality that has grown (since WW2) with regards to Rommel.
I confess I have never been an expert military historian and my own views and understanding of the man in question were limited to the well known assessment that he was a more than competent military leader and respected by allies and foes alike.
A number of posts on here have caused me to revise my own views of the man somewhat and to read up on his back story. I have to agree with the view that he was clearly an opportunist who in the build up to and the early years of WW2 didn’t ‘push back’ against the prevailing National Socialist juggernaut and his change of heart from 1943 onwards was probably more to do with the fact the allies were winning the war, rather than an idealistic abhorrence of the Nazi regime.
It is pretty ironic that I posted the thread due to my annoyance at the perceived historical ignorance of a few academics at Exeter University, when in reality, I was equally ignorant! Mea Culpa! :smile: =-|
 
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