Good Night Arlene - Poots pootles off

Big accusation. I assume you can provide evidence?
You really want to go over all that again? Buy the books on the subject, it will save time. Anyone who believes that the RUC and British intelligence didn't know what a high-profile pederast like McGrath and his chums were up to in Kincora is either a fool or a liar. I leave it to you to decide which.
 
You really want to go over all that again? Buy the books on the subject, it will save time. Anyone who believes that the RUC and British intelligence didn't know what a high-profile pederast like McGrath and his chums were up to in Kincora is either a fool or a liar. I leave it to you to decide which.

There are also books that claim the world is run by shape shifting lizards.

I didn't ask about accusations, I asked about evidence.
 
Can you point to any instance where a Catholic church was "used for PIRA activities"? Beyond the case of the defence of St Matthews which was a part of a wider operation in the Short Strand and which was not organised by the Catholic Church or its clergy.

The only priest (singular) that was ever alleged to have been involved in IRA activities was Father Chesney, a man whom the RUC declined to prosecute presumably on the grounds that there was insufficient evidence to do so. But even if we accept Chesney was involved he is the only priest that I have ever heard of who was involved in IRA activities.

One has only to ask embittered Provos who their toughest enemy was and they will not say the SAS or RUC Special Branch, they could deal with them, the Provos will always say their most destructive enemy was the Catholic Church, which went out of its way to condemn the Provos at an institutional and parish level. You won't find many fans of Cardinal Cahal Daly, Bishop Edward Daly, Father Anthony Mulvey, Father Denis Faul or countless other priests among the ranks of the IRA.

On the other hand you will look among the ranks of the Catholic clergy in vain to find the likes of Rev Ivan Foster, an active loyalist paramilitary in a clerical collar giving God's blessing to the work of sectarian murder gangs, you won't find any Catholic bishop on the stage of the Ulster Hall in a red beret organising the foundation of the loyalist paramilitary Ulster Resistance like the Rev Dr Ian Paisley nor will you find any Catholic priests being elected to political office, which was a commonplace occurrence for Protestant clergy.

I mentioned St Matthew's above it seems apposite to quote him here:

Clonard monastry in West Belfast for a start. HQ for the Belfast Brigade of PIRA in the 1970's.

Ex Priest Patrick Ryan. Admitted he played a key role in the bombing campaign in England, including the Brighton bomb.

Paisley was a cnut, you'll not find any Loyalist with a good word to say about him. He riled the young men of my community up, encouraged them to take up arms against the Nationalist community and when sent to Long Kesh, abandoned them.
 
Probably because they have had a far less number of priests who have been convicted for kiddyfiddling and don't have vicous fustrated nuns who abuse young Irish teenage mothers and their children, all the while with the knowledge of the Garda and Irish state with a blind eye shown to all their excesses.

I know you said Northern Ireland but the RC church is an all Ireland affair and has been since 1922. Some of their excesses came to light many years ago only because a Protestant dominated RUC was unwilling to turn a blind eye when Catholic parents complained to them. Unlike in the South where the Catholic Bishops always persuaded the Garda and State to let them deal with it in-house. Which usually resulted in the offender being transferred to another Province where he repeated his noncing.

As a result the Catholic church has lost its moral authority and respect in both north and south of Ireland, with the resulting decline in church attendance. Hence such things as abortion and gay marriage passing referendum's, which would have been unthinkable 30 or 40 years ago.

if you think that institutional child sexual abuse (by RC and Protestants) didn’t happen in NI (under the as you say many Protestant RUC)…..

funny what you say about abortion and gay marriage in ROI

ROI had both abortion and gay marriage before NI… where they were blocked by Protestants
 
ah but going back through history you have

Democratic Irish Republicans and Militant Irish Republicans…. Big difference

Like the Democratic Irish Republicans who despatched a soldier to each and every school to read the statement that kicked off armed insurrection? Back in history he probably was justified.

ETA Disagree @irlsgt ? Did it not happen then?
 
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Bugger me, it's like the 70s in here. Most of us have grown up now, you know.
Just yesterday, in the Ardglass boatyard, and after a long discussion on the merits of Patrick O'Brian's literary skills (technical detail vs historical, characterisation etc), the former Donegal sea captain and I agreed on a number of points and had a small libation together, at which juncture he asked: "and which part of England are you from?"

Well, you could have blowed me over with a light to fresh breeze. That sort of question is no longer Allowed, particularly if you hail, as I do, from the Dark Continent, and I told the bugger so.

You'd think the Cultural Revolution had never happened.
 
I have said it before but perhaps the most perspicacious remark ever made by a Unionist politician was made by Terence O'Neill and of course he got howled down for it.

"Treat a Roman Catholic like a Protestant and he will behave like one", spoken in his Eton and Irish Guards accent he just came across as a right condescending twat, but actually he was on to something.

Now that Catholics have access to decent jobs (indeed many here would claim they get more than their fair access now) and promotion, have the chance to own a nice house, go on foreign holidays, secure a good education for their kids, relax safe in the knowledge that's there's a chunky civil service pension waiting for them at their retirement they have become ever more relaxed about their place in the world.

They can live with remaining in the UK as long as they are getting a fair shake at the stick, they have no compelling desire to have sit down protests in the street, riot, join a terrorist organisation or try to overthrow the very state they now help administer. And they certainly don't want buses burning outside the 100,000+pound house in the Creggan that they got cheap when they bought it off the Housing Executive and in the driveway of which they have two cars.

In fact it is remarkable just who it is these days who is out on the street burning buses and trying to destabilise the political order. And oddly enough it's the same community that has the highest proportion of church-going adherents in Northern Ireland, while the once-devout Catholics have gotten positively blase about their religion, picking and choosing to ignore pretty much any aspect of Catholic theology that doesn't agree with their individual consciences, becoming in other words -shh, whisper it softly - Protestants.

How many of your (softly whispered) Protestant rioters are in line for chunky CS pensions? That can be ignored though because it suits your chauvinist trolling. (Not an insult BTW you seem to me to be trolling in the original sense of the word whereby a point is made and chauvinist because you are fighting the corner of what you regard as your group.)

Can you point to any instance where a Catholic church was "used for PIRA activities"? Beyond the case of the defence of St Matthews which was a part of a wider operation in the Short Strand and which was not organised by the Catholic Church or its clergy.

The only priest (singular) that was ever alleged to have been involved in IRA activities was Father Chesney, a man whom the RUC declined to prosecute presumably on the grounds that there was insufficient evidence to do so. But even if we accept Chesney was involved he is the only priest that I have ever heard of who was involved in IRA activities.

One has only to ask embittered Provos who their toughest enemy was and they will not say the SAS or RUC Special Branch, they could deal with them, the Provos will always say their most destructive enemy was the Catholic Church, which went out of its way to condemn the Provos at an institutional and parish level. You won't find many fans of Cardinal Cahal Daly, Bishop Edward Daly, Father Anthony Mulvey, Father Denis Faul or countless other priests among the ranks of the IRA.

On the other hand you will look among the ranks of the Catholic clergy in vain to find the likes of Rev Ivan Foster, an active loyalist paramilitary in a clerical collar giving God's blessing to the work of sectarian murder gangs, you won't find any Catholic bishop on the stage of the Ulster Hall in a red beret organising the foundation of the loyalist paramilitary Ulster Resistance like the Rev Dr Ian Paisley nor will you find any Catholic priests being elected to political office, which was a commonplace occurrence for Protestant clergy.

I mentioned St Matthew's above it seems apposite to quote him here:


Ulster Resistance? How much damage did they actually do? I'd say you'd be hard pushed to find a Paisley fan amongst the members of the actual murder gangs.

Also motes and beams? Regarding anything to do with Ireland north, south, united or in a parallel universe?
 
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Like the Democratic Irish Republicans who despatched a soldier to each and every school to read the statement that kicked off armed insurrection? Back in history he probably was justified.

ETA Disagree @irlsgt ? Did it not happen then?

The War of Independence happened because of the repeated failure of democracy

you are trying to say that there is no party in NI that is democratically Republican, the SDLP and arguable now Sinn Fein
 
The War of Independence happened because of the repeated failure of democracy

you are trying to say that there is no party in NI that is democratically Republican, the SDLP and arguable now Sinn Fein
The SDLP is a Nationalist party. Sinn Fein is a militant Republican party.
 
Where did this come from?
Apologies that was Britishandproud

Ireland was forced to adopt force of arms because for various reasons Democratic means didn’t work.

why did the military do the flags to schools?

It is part of the heritage and history of our country (we fought, in not for off, living memory for our independent and we have defended that independence), it thought the meaning of the tricolour (something lost on the Unionist narrative, in fairness it is probably also lost on many of those who fly it in NI).

that armed insurrection became a democratically expressed want for freedom, a War of Independence, a treaty, a civil war and the creation of our country as it is today.
 
Nationalist and Republic are interchangeable because the Nationalists want to join with what is a Republic

Definitely not how things are seen this side of the border. To us a Nationalist is someone who wants a United Ireland but doesn't support achieving it through violence. Republicans are people who believe violence is a legitimate way to achieve a United Ireland, whether they are actually involved in a violent campaign at that point or not.
 
When I grew up churches in NI were packed to the rafters. I know Western society has changed alot and religion isn't the be all and end all anymore. NI would still be quite religious though.
Out of town shopping centres are the new religion mate. Sprucefield for example has tons of people from dundalk and further now that money isn't short and they no longer live in fear of the priests.
The same can be said for the prods who used to dress up in their finery on a sunday carrying a bible they can now be found out at B&Q.
 
Out of town shopping centres are the new religion mate. Sprucefield for example has tons of people from dundalk and further now that money isn't short and they no longer live in fear of the priests.
The same can be said for the prods who used to dress up in their finery on a sunday carrying a bible they can now be found out at B&Q.
I was lucky, in that I was sent to Paisleys church as a kid in the late 80's and early 90's.. put me right off sky fairies lol.
 

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