Good Medical Practice?

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by fartsac, Nov 17, 2005.

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  1. A recent experience on Ex LOYAL LEDGER had me in shock, nay almost disgust!! :x
    A Medical Sub Unit (clearly to remain annonymous) Commander ordered his/her medics to stick to conventional (?what is current conventional practice?) practice on hours worked; susequently when an exercise casualty arrived at that location the medic on the scene claimed that he/she could not treat the casualty as he/she was off duty! 8O
    It turned out that there were indeed at the time no medics available, as they had all exceeded their 'hours'. Aside from the obvious C2 issues concerning the management of personnel, shifts and hours worked, why the h*ell was this order given?!
    The CO of the BG in question then countermanded the original order; but the question stands as to why it was given in the first place?!!
    Naturally the confidence of the guys on the ground was effected by this - indeed the overall performance of the Medical Chain/system was called into question on this Ex.
    Not a rant, or an effort to berate the Medics at all, indeed I feel that the job that is done by Medics within the Army is v demanding and gets little praise or recognition, especially in light of current manning issues. I was just wondering if there are any Medics (esp some with rank/experience) who would like to comment on this and perhaps enlighten me.
  2. Ex QA and married to Ex CMT.... (gives lots of clues). I am disgusted that a health professional would give the 'I am not on duty' speech whether it was a cas sim patient or real life... Duty of care pops to mind here.... I am now nursing in civvie street and hours worked is a big issue especialy for the NMC, but when you are in the Army it is 24/7..... I remember being absolutely knackered from working a 9 hour shift on the military ward, then straight onto guard duty to then go straight back onto a nursing shift for 8-12 hrs the following morning.... Unsafe, but we knew we had to do it as we were dual roled.... nurse and soldier!
  3. This is pretty poor. One of our jobs (outside of treating the sick and wounded) is to provide the field army with the confidence of knowing that they will be looked after if they become ill or injured. I would suggest that this is not the best way of dealing with this task.
  4. All Iwill say is Clinical Governance - even the Military has to succumb - whilst you will find what has happened unpalatable (excuse the pun) it is an order that is CORRECT.

    If the Army can not ensure there is enough staff - that is of concern for the MoD ....

    Scenario. You have just done as quoted above - YOU make a clinical mistake and the NMC can not represent you nor can the Army as YOU have exceeded your hours - who IS going to protect your professional name - the Army will not.

    This is a timely wake up call to the MoD - we need more DMS staff otherwise all these expeditions it goes on will not be sustainable.
  5. Spanish_Dave

    Spanish_Dave LE Good Egg (charities)

    Just like drivers hours really
  6. It may be a correct order, and the said commander may be making a point to those further up the chain, but surely for legit no duff casualties you get stuck in and sort it out, did they refuse to treat no duff?

    It still begs a question as what will happen on OPS in the future?, as a crash crew commander in Kosovo I was 5 mins notice to move day on stay on, as well as being a section commander looking after 3 Dets dotted about.

    No time for this b*llocks then you just got on with it.

    So glad I don't have to put up with this b*llshit now no wonder retention is so p*ss poor.
  7. For all that i appretiate the point you were trying to make Gp3, what a load of crap! I agree it is time we woke up to clinical governance throughout the military, but we do have a duty of care 24 hours.

    In a regional Dental centre it may well be suitable to post opening hours as theres always the three hour drive to the on call dentist, but thats another argument.

    My point is how is it ethicaly right to play at being medics on an exercise, which lets face it is not that hard! to then turn away a noduf casualty that needs you!

    Would a nurse for instance whos just done her busy night shift in a proper A&E turn away casualties if there was a Major Incident because she'd completed her "Drivers Hours"?


    That maybe an example on a grander scale but its relative. Would you, if you were appropriately trained not stop at a RTC because its 3 in the morning and your off home.

    We are undermaned and in some areas undertrained however when there are noduf casualties it is NOT the time to prove your point.

    For the individual effected, i am duly ashamed that some scrote of a medic could not take the time to treat you.
  8. Thanks for the replies - the casualtyin question was in fact an ex cas, and as such the response was all the more suprising, I would certainly not have expected them to turn away a noduf cas.
    The real point to take away is that while there is this shortfall in capability the perception from the field army is that there is little hope of surviving a serious injury on the b/field - morale and confidence, and as such (I would guess) respect, are being lost whilst this situations persists.
    Ex LL was an excellent opportunity for 101* to get out with another Bde (Combat) and trial the system outside of Ex LOG VIPER, it is therefore the responsibility of all those in the COC to rectify this - where possible - and let's have another opportunity to test 'the system'.