good lord the EU did something I agree with

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
#3
You will never stop bankers pilfering huge amounts of cash whenever they want. They see it as their own.
 
#4
European Union agreement to cap bankers' bonuses is setback for City | Business | The Guardian

of course the bankers will just up various allowances and give them free mortgages/cars or something like that
So you agree that the vastly undemocratic European Union should be able to make arbitrary decisions on what privately owned companies can pay their employees? Surely it the shareholders (i.e. owners) of any company that should be making that decision?

A very slippery slope indeed
 
#6
I wouldn't bother trying to argue. People have an irrational stereotype-based hatred of "bankers", and will support anything seen as punitive for no better reason.
If these are the same people who write EUSSR in their posts then the cognitive dissonance caused by this ruling must be amazing to see.
 
#7
Communism - EU style. I am not particularly fond of bankers but I don't believe some ****** sitting in a different country should have ANY say on my salary. cnuts. Can I have a say on the salary and benefits of the MEPs? Please......
 
#8
I support it, banker's salaries are absurd. There should be a cap on how much someone can earn as well as a property cap. That might stop the baby boomers from fking over the younger generation by buying up all the cheap housing. The govt should also lower student fees for real subjects and scrap meeja studies and dance.

Bitter? Moi?

You bet, I'd like to have cheap housing and a fair education system again. Making the rich even richer doesn't help anyone.

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Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#9
So the EU cap bankers bonuses (and wages?). What'll happen next? All the best bankers will get snapped up by the US and other banks where there is no cap - and we'll be left with the dross.
 
#10
Are you suggesting we had the best bankers in the world then?

That's a relief, for a moment I thought our bankers had gambled everyone's money and got us into the worst recession in living memory, but if they're really good and know what they're doing we'll all be saved!

A trained chimp could do a better job than those goons. All they do is push paper and sell stocks based on elaborate forecasts predicted by utter bollocks. They don't know any more about the situation than you or I. If they did we wouldn't be in this mess.

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#11
I've been pro union over the years but am becoming a bit of a sceptic now largely because of the huge population move into Britain. I'm certainly not opposed to it but I think the EU should bear the costs rather than the UK taxpayers get lumbered with it all.

I also don't think this is a good idea interfering with bankers personal remuneration. By all means look at taxing excessive profits but this means nothing to most of us,
 
#12
Are you suggesting we had the best bankers in the world then?

That's a relief, for a moment I thought our bankers had gambled everyone's money and got us into the worst recession in living memory, but if they're really good and know what they're doing we'll all be saved!

A trained chimp could do a better job than those goons. All they do is push paper and sell stocks based on elaborate forecasts predicted by utter bollocks. They don't know any more about the situation than you or I. If they did we wouldn't be in this mess.

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Cock.

THe US bankers started the whole thing by betting the farm on the US mortgage market. When that went tits-up it took Lehmans with it - that had a knock-on effect everywhere.

"A trained chimp could do a better job than those goons. All they do is push paper and sell stocks based on elaborate forecasts predicted by utter bollocks. They don't know any more about the situation than you or I. If they did we wouldn't be in this mess"

Selling stocks is a brokers' job - investmetn bankers typically do M & A, ECM and DCM, plus things like mezzanine financing, project financing, etc. Who typed your post - an untrained chimp?

Without ECM, DCM and M & A fund managers wouldn't have an awful lot of products to invest in other than commodities, precious metals and Forex.If you have a pension, your money is invested in products supplied by investment bankers. If you don't like them, then withdraw your money and keep it under your mattress.

You really work hard to keep that O2 thief tag, don't you? Cock.
 
#13
I've been pro union over the years but am becoming a bit of a sceptic now largely because of the huge population move into Britain. I'm certainly not opposed to it but I think the EU should bear the costs rather than the UK taxpayers get lumbered with it all.

I also don't think this is a good idea interfering with bankers personal remuneration. By all means look at taxing excessive profits but this means nothing to most of us,
As has been pointed out, it is an intrusion into private business. Notwithstanding that the Government has heavily invested in certain banks, those banks have not been nationalised and remain private companies. However the Government is there to regulate the banks and they should be granted the leverage to affect bonuses when certain criteria are not met. This Government and the last one have both instructed the banks to make more money available for business and to make more use of the GLGS to make more money available to companies. I would like to see a law which limits the bonus available if they have not met their business funding obligations. I would do this in the form of a levy that could then be put straight back into grant schemes aimed at business development.

I'm against regulation just because someone thinks they earn too much, after all they still pay tax on what they earn. However I'm also against huge bonuses being paid when they haven't met their obligations. Two different criteria? Split the banks then and don't combine commercial with investment banking.
 
#14
US bankers were pretty much forced into what they did by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which essentially made them lend money to high risk borrowers by statute, anyone who thinks Gordon Brown wouldn't have done the same had the British banks decided to not lend to high risk borrowers needs their head tested.
 
#15
Cock.

THe US bankers started the whole thing by betting the farm on the US mortgage market. When that went tits-up it took Lehmans with it - that had a knock-on effect everywhere.

"A trained chimp could do a better job than those goons. All they do is push paper and sell stocks based on elaborate forecasts predicted by utter bollocks. They don't know any more about the situation than you or I. If they did we wouldn't be in this mess"

Selling stocks is a brokers' job - investmetn bankers typically do M & A, ECM and DCM, plus things like mezzanine financing, project financing, etc. Who typed your post - an untrained chimp?

Without ECM, DCM and M & A fund managers wouldn't have an awful lot of products to invest in other than commodities, precious metals and Forex.If you have a pension, your money is invested in products supplied by investment bankers. If you don't like them, then withdraw your money and keep it under your mattress.

You really work hard to keep that O2 thief tag, don't you? Cock.
Touch a raw nerve darling? Do you work in banking?

ABC, ECM, whatever bollocks psychobabble is meaningless. Bankers are all money grabbing cnuts, Geraint Anderson admits as much. People can invest and play the stock market without them. Brokers gamble with people's money and the rest just invent graphs. RBS had to be bailed out by the taxpayer and they're still getting bonuses.

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Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
THe US bankers started the whole thing by betting the farm on the US mortgage market. When that went tits-up it took Lehmans with it - that had a knock-on effect everywhere.

"A trained chimp could do a better job than those goons. All they do is push paper and sell stocks based on elaborate forecasts predicted by utter bollocks. They don't know any more about the situation than you or I. If they did we wouldn't be in this mess"

Selling stocks is a brokers' job - investment bankers typically do M & A, ECM and DCM, plus things like mezzanine financing, project financing, etc. Who typed your post - an untrained chimp?

Without ECM, DCM and M & A fund managers wouldn't have an awful lot of products to invest in other than commodities, precious metals and Forex.If you have a pension, your money is invested in products supplied by investment bankers. If you don't like them, then withdraw your money and keep it under your mattress.
I've been interested in behavioural economics for several years. People like Dan Ariely have convincingly shown that rational decision making goes out the window when bonuses get too large. I will cite one specific paper: Dishonesty in Everyday Life and Its Policy Implications.

http://web.mit.edu/ariely/www/MIT/Papers/dishonesty.pdf

...In addition to corporate scandals, almost all companies present their employees with the conflict between selfishly
pursuing their own financial goals and being honest. Brokerage companies represent perhaps the most clear examples of such companies. Brokers are rewarded on the basis of the volume or profitability of the business they transact; such a system provides ample opportunities for conflicts of interest. Although brokers are supposed to act in their clients’ best interests, the commissions system can tempt them to choose personal gains over their clients’ interests; for example, brokers may experience pressure to buy and sell when they stand to gain larger commissions, they may recommend stocks or funds that are suitable for their interests but not for the client’s interest, they may delay the trades ordered by their clients to invest their own money
first, or they may misuse knowledge of a large impending order...
Put simply, there is ample proof that if you make bonuses totally disproportionate to base salary, people will take exceptional risks to get those bonuses and the hell with the company paying them. The entire investment banking system works on a get rich quick basis where senior employees plunder the system and try and get out with their profits intact before the next banking crash. If these individuals are so profitable for the banks, they would be paying them a far higher base salary and far less of a bonus.

So please don't tell me that epic stupidity like investment in sub-prime mortgages is the work of masters of their trade. It is the work of people ripping the arse out of extremely dubious investments and getting out with extremely large bonuses while their employers crashed and burned behind them.

Wordsmith
 
#17
Touch a raw nerve darling? Do you work in banking?

ABC, ECM, whatever bollocks psychobabble is meaningless. Bankers are all money grabbing cnuts, Geraint Anderson admits as much. People can invest and play the stock market without them. Brokers gamble with people's money and the rest just invent graphs. RBS had to be bailed out by the taxpayer and they're still getting bonuses.

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Such a fundamental misunderstanding of the world around you is one of the reasons you should need an IQ test before you vote.
 
#18
I wouldn't bother trying to argue. People have an irrational stereotype-based hatred of "bankers", and will support anything seen as punitive for no better reason.


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Actualy, the hatred of the Bankers is based on a perfectly sensible fact. That they brought the 'world' (with exceptions) to its knees through morally bankrupt policies and attitudes. Upon being found out that what they were doing was not only morally corrupt but in many cases illegal decided to brazen it out. They were also supported in their quest by the fortunate arrival of politicos who hadn't got a clue about economics, so were assured that never mind what we are doing, we will cut you a share attitude.

Is morality a function that has a role in capitalism? Well how about I break into your home, kick your wife to death and burn the house down, illegal yes but morally wrong not as far as I am concerned. And as far as your argument goes that ok then? Or is it simply that you also don't understand the extent of what they are done, and are burying your head in the sand?

What I have a problem with is not so much what the bankers have done, but the supine lack of a backbone by the government of the 4th richest country in the world, who refuse point blank to make the polluter pay. Which as you may recall was the clarion call of el thatcher back in the 1980's.

So it not what they have done as far as I am concerned but the reality that even though they have been caught, they refuse to accept that they should have to be held accountable.

And unfortunately if if takes an unelected bunch of EU Commissioners to bring the house of corruption down, then that's a shame, but its better than leaving them to it? Besides which, there is no real economic argument for the payment of bonuses, except a report written 20 odd years ago which made the case for bonuses. Moreover if bonuses were so useful, how come the ordinary workers dosn't get one?
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
(citizen grumble head on)

that's just a myth to perpetrate the wacky salaries. the banks are too big and they seemed to think that salaries should reflect the size of the company. I've known plenty of bankers over the past 20 years and all have been overpaid, mollycoddled and too full of themselves once they get past counter staff.

I agree the EU has done it deliberately to hit the city, but the city by and large deserved it. they refused to get their house in order and ran riot. if the so called superstars who were fixing libor etc.. want to go off and destroy somewhere else then let them, after their bosses have finished recouping the past bonuses off them (which is in progress according to a few press sites).

silly bonuses over the past 30 years or so have ruined the london housing market along with russian tax evaders and by proxy the UK housing market tends to think it's healthier than it is and much more expensive than it should be by around 60% by some figures I've read over the years. the bonus culture has spread like a cancer into everything from councils to network rail and is sickening the way they pay huge extras under the guise of otherwise they might leave. let them go, most aren't worth their base salary let alone an enhanced one.

british bankers wont find the world their oyster according to a few I've spoken to (and a few made redundant since 2008 ) if they try and leave en masse and there's plenty to take their places even if it is for a measly 250k a year. most have made enough to pay cash for their nottinghill houses so can just sit back and struggle to live on their decent salaries and reasonable bonuses.

all that will probably happen is the base salaries will go up with humongous pension schemes or they will split certain bits and pay the staff in cheap shares so they can get a big dividend every year - if the city wants to stay as it is then it will have to encourage us to leave the EU or at least persuade parliament to start doing what the rest of europe does in ignoring the bits it doesn't like.

the EU was out to get london regardless as it blames the financial system for its woes as its unable to blame itself. as far as the banks go restricted bonuses is probably preferable to a transaction tax. they'll get around it and the lawyers will have already worked it out. this is just a bit of press to make the EU look popular for a few weeks until the italian crisis kicks in properly.

ideally the rest of the world will follow suit to even the playing field but banks are being too greedy and politicians too corrupt to let that happen in the same way it did in the 30's. it's no coincidence that as soon as they allowed those rules to be relaxed or abolished (after much expensive lobbying) we wound up with credit bubbles and dodgy financial products.

they should let the city move to lagos - it would feel right at home there and probably get some fresh new ideas.

(citizen grumble head off - POWER TO THE PEOPLE!! and all that sort of thing :) )
 
#20
The principal cause in this country were the policies of Gordon Brown, he encouraged the banks to do what they did so he could tax it.

Read any of his Mansion House speeches.
 

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