Gold standard cock-up’ that keeps helicopters out of Afgan

#1
Gold standard cock-up’ that keeps key helicopters out of Afghanistan

IAN BRUCE, Defence Correspondent June 04 2008

A Botched Ministry of Defence helicopter deal which will eventually cost the taxpayer more than £422m is described as "a gold standard cock-up" in a damning Whitehall watchdog committee report.

Edward Leigh, chairman of the public accounts committee, said the purchase of eight Boeing Chinook Mark 3 helicopters, which had been unusable in operations since they were delivered and had been in storage hangars for almost seven years, represented "one of the most incompetent equipment procurements of all time".

The Chinooks cost £259m and were intended for SAS missions, but because of problems with their MoD-specified avionics software, they only had safety clearance to fly above 500 feet in clear skies when landmarks were clearly visible to the pilots.
More on the link
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/new..._keeps_key_helicopters_out_of_Afghanistan.php
 
#2
I know it has been covered in detail elsewhere, but worth following the <link> and reading the whole article.
 
#4
F-ing amazing.
They have the cabs and
Do we assume that men are working 24 hrs a day to get them out to the troops who Need them ?
Is the money there to allow the work to be done or has it all been spent on inquires.
Will someone fall on their bayonet or whatever the crabs use for this disgraceful matter.
john
 
#5
Latest is they're being worked on now. Even seen a few of 'em flying about down south recently.

Maybe worth asking on Pprune how they're coming on.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
Why did they pay for them if they couldn't use them ?
 
#9
Am I wrong in my understanding that there was some litigation going ahead against Boeing for the cost of fixing the problem, which prevented the MoD from sorting the problem out?
 
#10
the_boy_syrup said:
Why did they pay for them if they couldn't use them ?
The committee reports that the problem stems from MoD insistence that Boeing provide aircraft with a flight deck controlled by a mix of analogue and digital systems which could not pass the UK's stringent flight safety regulations.

The above quote apprears to suggest that the fault with the avionics is down to the MoD wanting the option above, surely analogue systems are older and perhaps cheaper, and possibly not up to the job. One of those spoiling the ship for a penny of tar scenarios
 
#11
Aren't analogue systems more robust and less likely to suffer wholesale battlefield damage - that is, a round goes through an analogue alt, You lose that dial, a round goes through a screen and You lose Your display
 
#12
I met one of the test pilots who was involved in this sorry saga. In his view the blame lay wholly with the RAF who put out a difficult specification, and then proved reluctant to listen to the advice of the test pilots.
 
#13
Jim

Am I wrong in my assertion that the cabs were not sorted due to a suit against Boeing - I cannot find anything to back up my memory on this?
 
#14
jonwilly said:
F-ing amazing.
They have the cabs and
Do we assume that men are working 24 hrs a day to get them out to the troops who Need them ?
Is the money there to allow the work to be done or has it all been spent on inquires.
Will someone fall on their bayonet or whatever the crabs use for this disgraceful matter.
john
yes, yes, yes. Us crabs are all sitting with our thumbs up our aerses and not doing a jot. In fact, we decided to use those cruddy airframes as goalposts at Odiham, so you'll not be seeing them getting serviced - they look too good on the football pitch.

:roll:
 
#15
Sven said:
Aren't analogue systems more robust and less likely to suffer wholesale battlefield damage - that is, a round goes through an analogue alt, You lose that dial, a round goes through a screen and You lose Your display
Not even an issue. Modern helicopters have both. Hard to come by a helicopter that doesnt have stand-by instruments to get you home in one piece. In fact, its hard to find a good modern helicopter that doesnt have redundancy built into all critical systems, whether it be hydraulic, electrical or flight control.
 
#16
Mr_C_Hinecap said:
jonwilly said:
F-ing amazing.
They have the cabs and
Do we assume that men are working 24 hrs a day to get them out to the troops who Need them ?
Is the money there to allow the work to be done or has it all been spent on inquires.
Will someone fall on their bayonet or whatever the crabs use for this disgraceful matter.
john
yes, yes, yes. Us crabs are all sitting with our thumbs up our aerses and not doing a jot. In fact, we decided to use those cruddy airframes as goalposts at Odiham, so you'll not be seeing them getting serviced - they look too good on the football pitch.

:roll:
Not your usual informative post. How about cutting through the hype and enlightening us on the facts, as you understand them. 7 years and still not available does seem a little rediculous.
 
#17
Mr_C_Hinecap said:
jonwilly said:
F-ing amazing.
They have the cabs and
Do we assume that men are working 24 hrs a day to get them out to the troops who Need them ?
Is the money there to allow the work to be done or has it all been spent on inquires.
Will someone fall on their bayonet or whatever the crabs use for this disgraceful matter.
john
yes, yes, yes. Us crabs are all sitting with our thumbs up our aerses and not doing a jot. In fact, we decided to use those cruddy airframes as goalposts at Odiham, so you'll not be seeing them getting serviced - they look too good on the football pitch.

:roll:
Goal posts good plan, use the rotors for rugby posts and the cabs as weather protection for the crowd might be better though
 
#18
The real issue is that an organization approaches a vendor and asks for a specific ariframe with a long list of requirements. A contract is written and the vendor supplies PER CONTRACT exactly to specification. Upon receipt, personnel with the real "know" decide that the original specifications were incorrect.

Law suit and pissing contest entail, and when all said and done the vendor supplied the product TO SPEC, per contract.

Big ball dropped from a great height? Most certainly.
 
#19
DummyRound said:
Sven said:
Aren't analogue systems more robust and less likely to suffer wholesale battlefield damage - that is, a round goes through an analogue alt, You lose that dial, a round goes through a screen and You lose Your display
Not even an issue. Modern helicopters have both. Hard to come by a helicopter that doesnt have stand-by instruments to get you home in one piece. In fact, its hard to find a good modern helicopter that doesnt have redundancy built into all critical systems, whether it be hydraulic, electrical or flight control.
thanks DR

What is the analogue/digital mix that was so unworkable then?
 
#20
DummyRound said:
The real issue is that an organization approaches a vendor and asks for a specific ariframe with a long list of requirements. A contract is written and the vendor supplies PER CONTRACT exactly to specification. Upon receipt, personnel with the real "know" decide that the original specifications were incorrect.

Law suit and pissing contest entail, and when all said and done the vendor supplied the product TO SPEC, per contract.

Big ball dropped from a great height? Most certainly.
As with all things involving contracts and big money at some point the paperwork goes infront of a bean counter who looks at costs, and whilst sat on his leather wingback multi-adjustable recliner chair that is very comfortable sees something that must have a financially wiser variant, or cheaper as it is known. this person usually has no idea what they are looking at except the £s it costs.
 

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