Going, going... (Friday) gone

#2
I would probably feel sorry if we hadn't shut all the army hospitals in order to keep Haslar open in the first place.
 
#6
radioactiveman said:
I would probably feel sorry if we hadn't shut all the army hospitals in order to keep Haslar open in the first place.
Well, either you are in favour of military hospitals or you are not. And Haslar was the last military hospital in the UK. Sour grapes over it being a former Naval hospital seem a bit petty really. From my personal experience and observation, everyone managed to get on pretty well there no matter what colour uniform they wore.

To be strictly accurate, the Army hospitals weren't closed to keep Haslar open, any more than Stonehouse or the RAF hospitals were. The decision was taken that there would be only be one and the decision was made on that basis. As I recall, the only serious rival for the location was Wroughton. In terms of location close to Lyneham & Brize, it had some advantages over Haslar but lost out in the end.

If there's any oneupmanship to be had here, then I suppose it's the fact that Haslar has been a military hospital for two and a half centuries. It opened its doors long before any other UK military hospital and will be the last to shut them.

Said it before, but it's still true- sad day.
 
#8
After having been treated at Haslar, I for one shall also be very sad to see it go. Top quality treatment! God, what's next Headley Court?
 
#9
I will have the fondest memories of working at Haslar having started my nursing career there. I shall remember the good working relationship enjoyed between the RN, Army and RAF and the high standards that this hospital enjoyed. How long until it becomes expensive flats?
 
#10
Probably aging myself here but my first posting post PQO was CMH - what a tremendous place that was. Now derelict. Bloody shame.
 
#11
Neuroleptic

Don't be silly - of course I'm in favour of military hospitals. Just not ridiculously sited hospitals which were foisted on us because the Navy didn't like the idea of being bottom of the pecking order in the DMS. You admit yourself that tradition was the only reason that Haslar was kept at the expense of the much better suited Wroughton.
As for Stonehouse (yes - I worked there as well as at Haslar) don't get me started!
QEMH, CMH, DKMH,Wroughton or Halton would have all been better sited as a core DMS hospital than Haslar
 
#12
Neuroleptic said:
radioactiveman said:
I would probably feel sorry if we hadn't shut all the army hospitals in order to keep Haslar open in the first place.
Well, either you are in favour of military hospitals or you are not. And Haslar was the last military hospital in the UK. Sour grapes over it being a former Naval hospital seem a bit petty really. From my personal experience and observation, everyone managed to get on pretty well there no matter what colour uniform they wore.

To be strictly accurate, the Army hospitals weren't closed to keep Haslar open, any more than Stonehouse or the RAF hospitals were. The decision was taken that there would be only be one and the decision was made on that basis. As I recall, the only serious rival for the location was Wroughton. In terms of location close to Lyneham & Brize, it had some advantages over Haslar but lost out in the end.

If there's any oneupmanship to be had here, then I suppose it's the fact that Haslar has been a military hospital for two and a half centuries. It opened its doors long before any other UK military hospital and will be the last to shut them.

Said it before, but it's still true- sad day.
at the risk of sounding like a stuck record - the Duke of Connaught Unit remains open as a Military Hospital, the last remaining site of Forces secondary care in the UK
 
#13
I will be sorry to see Haslar go, like many I started my nursing career there and am back there at the moment, sad to see pass to the No hope service but there you go. think that the only reason that the civvies are cut up about it is that they may ahve to wait a few more months for thier knee replacement (shame). Halsar is sited badly though, for those of you ahve ever driven though gosport at rush hour you will know what I mean.
 
#14
radioactiveman said:
Neuroleptic

Don't be silly - of course I'm in favour of military hospitals. Just not ridiculously sited hospitals which were foisted on us because the Navy didn't like the idea of being bottom of the pecking order in the DMS. You admit yourself that tradition was the only reason that Haslar was kept at the expense of the much better suited Wroughton.
As for Stonehouse (yes - I worked there as well as at Haslar) don't get me started!
QEMH, CMH, DKMH,Wroughton or Halton would have all been better sited as a core DMS hospital than Haslar
So what you are saying is that the smallest part (by a considerable margin) of the DMS bullied the Army and RAF into shutting all their hospitals so Haslar could be kept open? Interesting theory.

This is water under the bridge really, but since you've raised the point...

Location wasn't the only factor in deciding where the last MOD hospital went, and where it was in the road atlas was only one part of that. As I understand it, the decision was taken at an early stage that it would be in a major garrison/port area, thus losing points for Wroughton and Halton. Catterick was an obvious choice, except that it was only convenient for the people in Catterick. Having escorted patients from the south of England to the Psych inpatient unit there, I can vouch for that personally. Wroughton also suffered from the perception (not necessarily fair tbh) that it was out in the sticks and didn't get a balanced case mix, especially on the medical side.

Then there's the other factors-

The state of the buildings- Haslar was simply the best hospital in terms of state of repair, upkeep and general estate. CMH, Halton and Wroughton would all have needed extensive and expensive repair/upkeep in short order to keep them up to scratch in the medium/long term. QEMH and DKMH had their own problems. The NHS virtually had to rebuild QEMH when they took it over. I also saw enough of DKMH/DKPH to know that it had snags structurally. The MOD simply wasn't prepared to spend that much cash when they could use a far smaller amount to create a few new facilities in a sound structure i.e. Haslar.

Accommodation for staff- There was shedloads of single and married accommodation available in the Gosport area (with the exception of officers MQs) at the time. By comparison, keeping Wroughton open would have entailed a major (and costly) building programme. Aldershot, as I understand the situation, was also toppers.

RCDM- In order to create a "Centre of Excellence" (I shudder when I hear that phrase), it was decided to co-locate the hospital and RCDM (without new builds, thus saving cash). As the submarine service had just vacated HMS Dolphin/Fort Blockhouse, a large training establishment with suitable facilities and bags of accom/office space was available right next door and close to two universities with (at the time) nursing faculties (Portsmouth and Southampton) and a medical school (Southampton). They even got a Field Hospital squeezed in there too.

Case mix- I know some people wont agree with me, and I admit it's not really my specialist subject, but i was told this was a major factor in Haslar's favour. Situated where it is, it wasn't in competition for patients with a major civvy hospital. It didn't have a Brook, Frimley or Swindon General to compete with; therefore not ending up with a lot of cold surgery and not much trauma or acute medicine.

Radioactiveman, I'm sorry if you feel that the Army was had over in favour of Haslar, but it wasn't that simple. Lots of factors went into the decision making process, some of them rational and some of them not.
 
#15
I do not feel that the army was 'had over' in favour of Haslar, rather that a decision was made to appease the Navy. I would refer you to "Adrian's" comments in another thread about DCS 15 and the attitude of the Navy to defence medicine. I genuinely have no axe to grind in this issue but feel that Haslar should not have been given the pre-eminent position that it had. Why would I otherwise defend RAF hospitals as better suited?
 
#16
radioactiveman said:
I do not feel that the army was 'had over' in favour of Haslar, rather that a decision was made to appease the Navy. I would refer you to "Adrian's" comments in another thread about DCS 15 and the attitude of the Navy to defence medicine. I genuinely have no axe to grind in this issue but feel that Haslar should not have been given the pre-eminent position that it had. Why would I otherwise defend RAF hospitals as better suited?
Whatever Adrian might say, I can assure you that nobody in the Army or RAF hierachy was remotely interested in appeasing a service they felt didn't really matter (too small). If they had, the CMT/MA/career course/etc training would have been at Haslar/Blockhouse rather than Keogh (which should have been shut to save money) and Psychiatry wouldn't have gone to Catterick.

I should say that I got an insight into these deliberations at the time as I worked for a senior person who was closely involved. He was RN and felt that the Navy got royally shafted by the other services during this period.
 
#17
I think that we'll just have to agree to disagree. Certainly from a Radiology angle the Navy took the whip hand despite their pitifully small establishment.
 
#18
radioactiveman said:
I think that we'll just have to agree to disagree. Certainly from a Radiology angle the Navy took the whip hand despite their pitifully small establishment.
LOL, fair enough.

Wasn't that down to the lead service for PAMS initiative? You have a point there, that was real horse trading!
 
#19
Funnily enough, lead service for Radiographers was planned to be RAF. That's why a certain Squadron Leader used to be a Sergeant RAMC when I were a lad! You'd have thought that he knew not to volunteer for anything by then.
 
#20
whitemouse75 said:
excellent day it was too. Right hand marker was particularly handsome i noticed.
Another excellent day today, bit nippy though.


Just watching the highlights on the news, couldn't help but notice one strapping young JNCO on the CO's field gun crew was way to swarthy and good-looking too be ward based. With an athletic figure and chiselled good looks like that, surely he should be the face of QA recruiting?

Are you reading DOCN?
 

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