Going back to 7,62 mm craze; is the UK hit by the fashion ?

#1
More and more reports and pictures are coming back from OIF/OEF of US soldiers equipped with M14s or M1As, a rifle which is supposed to be better at stopping and killing ACMs than any 5,56.

The SOCOM SCAR rifle has a 7,62 version and HK is offering its HK 417 in a 12 inches barrel version for "assault" purposes.

UKSF sort of "ignited" this trend when it switched to the L100A1 (HK G3A4K) for its Ulster ops in the late 80s and probably led the RUC to also use G3s.

my question is: is there currently any debate in HM's forces about re-issuing 7,62 mm "battle rifles" to non SF units ?

Thanks
 
#5
Strangely_Brown_RM said:
Had a SLR in sierra leone on a training team, great bit of kit.
Had one all my army service, couldn't agree more.
 
#6
to be fair nobody whose used the a2 in anger is whining about it
 
#7
brighton hippy said:
to be fair nobody whose used the a2 in anger is whining about it
Apart from the Argentian ones, who used it, only to find it being shoved up their bums, 25 years ago, by mountain walking demons with a very similar gat.

Still whinging now, I hear :twisted:

Get over it Pablo
 
#8
londonirish said:
brighton hippy said:
to be fair nobody whose used the a2 in anger is whining about it
Apart from the Argentian ones, who used it, only to find it being shoved up their bums, 25 years ago, by mountain walking demons with a very similar gat.

Still whinging now, I hear :twisted:

Get over it Pablo
I think the Hipmeister meant L85A2. It seems to be highly regarded by the blokes who use it. Be interesting to hear from anyone who used both in anger, though. My money would be on SLR, though - a man never forgets his first love. :D
 
#9
Not to re-ignite the 5.56 vs 7.62 debate (have used both and SLR anytime). I was watching a show the other night (Future Weapons) that mentioned 7.62 is having a comeback because more of the opposition are now either getting hold of body armour or are hiding behind things that 5.56 just can't punch through. May not be issued per squaddie, but it may be getting a resurgence as a section support weapon. But then again, I never believe anything until I see it.
 
#10
Pity we sold most our SLR's to Sierra Leonne for £2:00 each apparently all the slings were sold off surplus and they had to buy back slings to go on these rifles for more than £2:00 each (or so the rumor goes)
 
#11
Punching through walls, overwatch, stopping cars, getting through BA and, in some instances fighting in mountains are the most commonly heard reasons for that return...and for the distribution of (apparently) 2-3 M14 per regular (not SF) Platoons of deployed units of the US infantry.

Considering US SF have, according to a US magazine, purchased a small number of 11" barrel DSA 58 (FAL in all but names) to equip some CQB teams, it looks like the logic is now being taken one step further.

interesting to see that most who have bothered to answer that thread have expressed preference for the 7,62 mm; says something, really !
 
#12
fantassin said:
interesting to see that most who have bothered to answer that thread have expressed preference for the 7,62 mm; says something, really !
... You're all old and can't get over the tragic loss of the SLR?

;) I'm only pulling your legs.
 
#13
We each and all know what we used, and a case could be made for every calibre up to 16" on a 'horses for courses' basis.

A personal weapon assumes a very important role in a squaddie's life, assuming a familiarity that is unlikely to be matched by any other piece of equipment, and so will give rise to extremely strong and polarised opinions. Also they tend to endure more than any other weapon system.
The SLR outlasted Centurion and Chieftain, 25 Pounders, and only the Light Gun has outlived it in service.

No wonder we miss them.
 
#14
303rifleman said:
Pity we sold most our SLR's to Sierra Leonne for £2:00 each apparently all the slings were sold off surplus and they had to buy back slings to go on these rifles for more than £2:00 each (or so the rumor goes)
I know the dealer who sold them back back!
He works out of a surplus shop in Southsea doing a bit of hiring for films and the like, if I remember correctly he also sold back a load of cleaning kits.
You may remember I was selling some of the green nylon slings, went back for more and the MOD had beaten me to it!
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#15
5.56 rocks and as previously posted in a thread called something like "Does 5.56 work or is just 7.62 set on stun" on this forum...

7.62 conversation, apart from all those GPMG's doing the rounds which IIRC the yanks completed dumped M60's in favour of SAW so I can see why it makes sense to get some other 7.62 weapons in their plt's but we already have 7.62 with the gimpy and snipers so why bother?
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#16
fantassin said:
Punching through walls, overwatch, stopping cars, getting through BA and, in some instances fighting in mountains are the most commonly heard reasons for that return...and for the distribution of (apparently) 2-3 M14 per regular (not SF) Platoons of deployed units of the US infantry.

Considering US SF have, according to a US magazine, purchased a small number of 11" barrel DSA 58 (FAL in all but names) to equip some CQB teams, it looks like the logic is now being taken one step further.

interesting to see that most who have bothered to answer that thread have expressed preference for the 7,62 mm; says something, really !
WTF would you know about it? Got one on your Permis de Chasse :?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
Mr Happy said:
And thats another point, if we had solid metal 556 instead of the copper jacketed lead would that improve penetration?
The yanks in Mogadishu had problems with armour penetrating 5.56 and the local would take several in the body and just keep on coming. Short of expanding ammo or head shots it isnt a do it all to use armour piercing on people!
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#19
From what I know about Mog....

The yanks may have been kicking arrse but they certainly didn't have time to take names and I don't believe that they were in a position to conduct a post-op analysis as deep as the effects of their ammo on the floppies.

Just my opinion. Whats you source? No saying you're wrong Uggers, just wanna know where it came from
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
There was a post op report doing the rounds, USSF as opposed to the rangers, it was quoted in various open sources including a book about the whole misadventure. The Green Berets had recieved an initial issue of new 5.56 which although not AP was designed with armored tips to penetrate the standard body armour available at that time. The post action reports included such comments as "We should have ditched it in favour of Hunting ammo!" Apparently the Skinnies as the sceptics so lovingly called the civpop were about as unarmoured as possible and hence headshots were the answer or 7.62 which was available in abundance to the natives in the M43 variety and Nato for the Yanks SF. The 2 snipers on the helicopter (both were awarded postumous CMoH) used M21 Nato 7.62 rifles and these had the ability to stop running floppies unlike the 5.56. Mute point regarding hunting ammo but if you are engaging an enemy that isnt a recognised Army, hasnt signed the Geneva or Hague treaties, then do we have to abide by them?
 

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