Globalisation uber alles

Except that Trump's leading the anti-China charge so half your fellow-country folk are automatically pro-China.
Nope, China is a bipartisan issue. We hate each other over domestic issues, and will fight to the death on that. But foreigners tend to cause us to cease fire to deal with them. Being pro PRC is a political death sentence now.
 
Well it looks like Mad Muttie has caved in to Macron's gallic charm. I wonder how the hard working German taxpayers like @Drilligraf will enjoy bailing out France and Club Med to the tune of 500 billion. Thats grants (free money) not loans. Most will be coming from Germany and by international loans meaning more debt for Germany.
On a different matter, but never the less concerning money, the Bavarian Minister President, Marcus Söder, wasn't so keen on the Finanzministers generosity. I suspect if the EU comes begging then Söder will tell them to do one.
By the way Söder is being touted as the next Bundeskanzler, should make matters entertaining should he succeed.
 
Well it looks like Mad Muttie has caved in to Macron's gallic charm. I wonder how the hard working German taxpayers like @Drilligraf will enjoy bailing out France and Club Med to the tune of 500 billion. Thats grants (free money) not loans. Most will be coming from Germany and by international loans meaning more debt for Germany.

Stiil the European Project and closer intergration is more important. The UK has really dodged a bullet with Brexit. I wonder if Merkel ever wishes that she had been a bit nicer to 'call me Dave' and not sent him off with a flea in his ear in 2016.

500 Billion bailout
This is just the beginning!!
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Nope, China is a bipartisan issue. We hate each other over domestic issues, and will fight to the death on that. But foreigners tend to cause us to cease fire to deal with them. Being pro PRC is a political death sentence now.
Maybe pro-China is too strong - perhaps it's better described as not being anti-China.
 
Globalisation was a Ponzi scheme and like any scheme, you had winners and lots of losers, but the bluff was called by corona and I can't see the system resetting itself any time soon. I am actually a bit scared of this recession, because the money printers are already running so hot to stop the recession, turning into a depression that lasts for years (but seriously how long can that last).

Do we see Brexit as a positive in a depression, or the opposite ? Oddly, I think the level playing field market is now dead and a bit more freedom and wiggle room might not be such a bad thing in the medium and long term.
We see Brexit as a positive and only alternative to being subsumed into the US of Eu .

We will survive, and if we keep pushing back against the 'Lefties' , we will thrive.

Support Britain - Stop buying Made in China
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
With 97,000 plus dead and rising, Wolf Warrior Diplomacy in full force. Only a retard would be under the illusion that the leadership of the PRC deserves a pass.
Have you not looked at the make-up of Western societies recently...?
 
One could argue that the 2008 crash, we never really recovered and the world economy has floated on funny money and Chinese growth ever since...... Its just a view, but if we are all going into a depression, rather than a simple recession, we need a new political consensus to rally behind, as the old one has being heavily corrupted, particularly in the international organs and I don't see how a simple restart to the system will fix anything, especially if a second or third wave pandemic hits.

Still think democracy should be the requirements for being in the club and the time for engagement is over.
 
Well it looks like Mad Muttie has caved in to Macron's gallic charm. I wonder how the hard working German taxpayers like @Drilligraf will enjoy bailing out France and Club Med to the tune of 500 billion. Thats grants (free money) not loans. Most will be coming from Germany and by international loans meaning more debt for Germany.

Stiil the European Project and closer intergration is more important. The UK has really dodged a bullet with Brexit. I wonder if Merkel ever wishes that she had been a bit nicer to 'call me Dave' and not sent him off with a flea in his ear in 2016.

500 Billion bailout

Lebensraum don't come cheap
 
Western society tends to be as different as night and day when trying to compare them. Deplorable me is reminded of that on this very forum daily.
People sometimes can't stand opinion which undermines something about themselves and what they're believe in. Imagine all those who have made a profession of pushing the idea that china can be changed by engagement and promoted business with china are feeling right now. Whereas a year ago were on top of the world.
 
People sometimes can't stand opinion which undermines something about themselves and what they're believe in. Imagine all those who have made a profession of pushing the idea that china can be changed by engagement and promoted business with china are feeling right now. Whereas a year ago were on top of the world.
A year ago the US was in a trade war with China, and I imagine it will be the same a year from now. I would say thanks to Bill, much of America was soured on NAFTA. Hence the desire to make things right for our people who have been losing out for almost thirty years.
 
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Globalisation was a Ponzi scheme and like any scheme, you had winners and lots of losers, but the bluff was called by corona and I can't see the system resetting itself any time soon.
While I don't disagree with bringing certain essential manufacturing home there is a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.

Globalism wasn't a Ponzi scheme it was driven by Capitalism and the obsessive desire to generate higher profit margins year after year. Are shareholders prepared to give up billions of $$'s profit every year?

It was also driven by consumerism and the desire for cheaper products. Will consumers just except higher prices or do without?

It was also driven by trade markets, if you buy this off us we will buy this off you.

Americas Soybean market is a prime example, the farmers need the Chinese market to survive. 90% of U.S Haricot Beans are purchased by the U.K.

Does bringing manufacturing home also include Japan, S. Korea, the U.S.A, and the other car manufacturers closing down overseas production and consumers being satisfied with just home built vehicles?

Globalism may include 'Exceptionism', China may even be replaced by Africa but Globalism will never be eradicated completely.
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Are shareholders prepared to give up billions of $$'s profit every year?
Governments have taken on so much debt that they are talking about the banks charging you to deposit your savings with them and negative interests rates, so I think shareholders can kiss goodbye to their billions of profit every year.

Where do Governments think they are going to borrow all these billions that they are talking about, like the EU 500 billion Covid bonds? Are the international money markets going to be queing up to lend at negative interest rates?

Or will Governments just going to get the printing presses working overtime until the pound, Dollar, and Euro are comparative with the Zimbabwe Dollar?
 

Unremarkable

War Hero
As a geo-political comment I think the idea of some form of anglo-saxon/free market alliance/commonwealth going forward is something worth exploring.
So that's what? England, some of Canada, New Zealand, Australia, a few other places... Does the USA still identify as Anglo Saxon these days? I certainly don't.
 
I find the whole globalisation fear thing puzzling. Adam Smith identified that nations should specialise in the things that they are good at three hundred years ago. Britain was largely built on globalisation. The only thing that ha a changed is that it’s no longer the centre of the globe.
 
The idea of globalisation came from the realisation that what set the US, western Europe and Australia apart from the rest of the world was not wealth, some countries in Africa and Asia have wealth that dwarfed many European countries, but how equally shared out (up to a point) that wealth was. An ordinary working man in those countries could have a house, a car, take a foreign holiday and as such was happy and productive, if only we could share that with benighted third world shiteholes the whole world would be as plump and prosperous as the West.

But what this came down to in the end was simply taking all those nice well paying jobs from working class Americans and Europeans (note I don't go for the usual trope "white working class" as the biggest sufferers in the US were African-American workers) and sending them overseas.

When the only people complaining were working class people, no one needed to pay any attention to them, especially as the middle classes were getting richer and able to buy even more nice things cheap from overseas (including servants). But this is no longer so, vast swathes of middle class jobs are now disappearing. Huge parts of accountancy, medical and even legal work can now be sent to India to be done overnight and returned the next morning for a tenth of the price. Other jobs are going, technical and design work, we read in another thread that airline pilots are being outsourced, this is going to hurt the opinion makers very soon.

We could ignore the Sun readers when their jobs were being lost, when the Daily Telegraph and Guardian readers are losing their earnings to India and the Philippines, and that is happening, that's when we will see the abandonment of globalisation and a new era of protectionism.
 

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