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Gibraltar's future.

Jammy66

War Hero
I've visited La Linea a few times, stayed there one year I was visiting Gib as the hotels are much cheaper, never realised it was a drug gangland hotbed! Never had any problems wandering about at night either. Sometimes ignorance is bliss!
 
In the documentary, the Mayor made a very good point when he stated that he could not afford to pay for large new 4 x 4s for the police or the latest hi-tech gizmos or weapons, but that the cartels had no such limitations.

When they arrest the ring-leader, he had 60M euros in the bank, yet he was wearing a crappy track-suit bottom and a raggy old T-shirt, having been found in one of the shacks near the beach in La Linea.

Jeez, if I'd a fraction that I'd have been in better clothes and a better house!


It's not a place I like to wander around.
 
I was surprised to see the following reported by BBC NEWS late last night, and then found the confirmtion below on another thread . . . .

bullet_catcher said:
The Spanish are apparently playing games with us on the border with Gibraltar.

I hope we have enough muscle down there to keep them out.


The BBC NEWS, has just confirmed the news tagged-on to the end of that link/clip . . .

The Gib/Spanish hard border is to be REMOVED, allowing FREE MOVEMENT, and FRONTEX will man sea and air arrivals into Gib . . . which will join/is to be regarded as . . . a members/part of, the Schengen Area !!

Has the fcuking world gone mad !! :( .

Posted on: this "gibraltars-future" thread, and also the "Brexit Consequences" thread.
 
ericferret said:
The latest from the BBC

12 hours ago

www.bbc.co.uk

Brexit: End to Gibraltar land border prompts joy and trepidation

For residents on both sides of the border there are hopes of an end to queues, but not everyone is convinced.
Click to expand...

No-one else picked-up on this, in six pages on the "Brexit Consequences" thread :( .

Buggers the fish, Scottish exports, supermarket shelves, COVID, and Irish potatoes . . .

WE'VE JUST LOST GIBRALTAR !! :( .

Posted on: this "gibraltars-future" thread, and also the "Brexit Consequences" thread.
 
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No-one else picked-up on this, in six pages on the "Brexit Consequences" thread :( .

Buggers the fish, Scottish exports, supermarket shelves, COVID, and Irish potatoes . . .

WE'VE JUST LOST GIBRALTAR !! :( .

Posted on: this "gibraltars-future" thread, and also the "Brexit Consequences" thread.

Enlighten me, how does it mean we've lost Gibraltar?

Frontex and Gibraltar border staff and free movement doesn't seem like any great threat to Gibralatars sovereignty to me unless I'm missing something?
 
No-one else picked-up on this, in six pages on the "Brexit Consequences" thread :( .

Buggers the fish, Scottish exports, supermarket shelves, COVID, and Irish potatoes . . .

WE'VE JUST LOST GIBRALTAR !! :( .

Posted on: this "gibraltars-future" thread, and also the "Brexit Consequences" thread.
I don't trust a single thing the BBC say so need more info from a better source.
 
Enlighten me, how does it mean we've lost Gibraltar?

Frontex and Gibraltar border staff and free movement doesn't seem like any great threat to Gibralatars sovereignty to me unless I'm missing something?

Uncontrolled, free movement, of unemployed, drug dealing, criminal Spaniards and others from anywhere in the Schengen zone . . . into Gibraltar . . . how else should it be described ?! :( .

From the link . . .

The Spanish workers of La Línea de la Concepción are at the ready to celebrate the removal of the Gibraltar border controls. And they have reason to.

This small coastal town bordering Gibraltar is one of the poorest in Spain. A third of people here are unemployed and in some neighbourhoods that figure rises to 80%. Drug trafficking from Morocco and armed gangs have become a problem for police.

La Línea de la Concepción street

image caption: Gibraltar is an essential source of work for people living in La Línea.

Fifteen thousand residents have jobs in Gibraltar where wages are on average 20% higher. And Gibraltar needs them for the lifeblood of its economy, especially in the nursing, catering and cleaning industries.

What will change

As part of the UK's exit from the EU, the UK and Spain have agreed in principle that the land border will go, possibly within six months, but the terms of the deal first have to be made into a formal treaty with the EU:
  • The single road linking the territories will be widened to allow people and cars to travel freely.
  • Some infrastructure will stay at the border, a few guards will remain on standby, and finalities still need to be worked out such as judging the necessity of certain customs checks away from the border and if so how they would work.
  • For the border to disappear, Gibraltar will effectively become part of Europe's passport-free travel area - the Schengen zone - though there is a different use of language from both sides on whether it will be "part of", or "connected to" Schengen
  • With the border gone, new arrivals will only be checked if they enter by sea at the port and by air
  • For the first time, as well as the Gibraltar border guards, there will be guards from the EU border and Coastguard Agency known as Frontex also checking passports ( . . . of all those that enter Gibraltar, by sea at the port and by air).
 

QRK2

LE
Enlighten me, how does it mean we've lost Gibraltar?

Frontex and Gibraltar border staff and free movement doesn't seem like any great threat to Gibralatars sovereignty to me unless I'm missing something?
It's potentially a massive win for Gib if they play things right, think Monaco. Not sure what planet the 'We've just lost Gibraltar' howling comes from.
 
It's potentially a massive win for Gib if they play things right, think Monaco. Not sure what planet the 'We've just lost Gibraltar' howling comes from.

As far as I can see you are correct.
Border control on the Spanish side by Frontex, on the Gibraltar side by Gibraltar.
I'm prepared to be corrected but it seems perfectly reasonable and a sensible solution to me

Sovereignty unchanged but no six hour que's crossing over.
 
Enlighten me, how does it mean we've lost Gibraltar?

Frontex and Gibraltar border staff and free movement doesn't seem like any great threat to Gibralatars sovereignty to me unless I'm missing something?

Maybe we need a new 2021 definition of what Sovereignty means and implies . . .

If you cannot control your own borders; and, if security/forces from another country, authority, are involved with checking/controlling those entering (and their passports), it is suggested it is NOT a form of Sovereignty that would be recognised by many folk.

By extension of this perverse principle, would there be any objection to “free movement” together with . . .

+ “free movement” and French Gendarmes manning the entry points within the Channel Islands?

+ “free movement” and the Garda checking movement of peoples/traffic at entry points in Northern Ireland?

+ “free movement” and Argentinian security checking passports at Mount Pleasant, and at the quey-side in Stanley harbour?
 
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As far as I can see you are correct.
Border control on the Spanish side by Frontex, on the Gibraltar side by Gibraltar.
I'm prepared to be corrected but it seems perfectly reasonable and a sensible solution to me

Sovereignty unchanged but no six hour que's crossing over.
WRONG . . .

For the first time, as well as the Gibraltar border guards, there will be guards from the EU border and Coastguard Agency known as Frontex also checking passports ( . . . of all those that enter Gibraltar, by sea at the port and by air).
 
Ummm - this kind of flies in the face of a recent document published by the Gib Government, regarding what can and cannot be taken across the border into Spain. We used to go to Gib 3 or 4 times a year to get supplies from Morrison's. Since Jan 1st we cannot take any fresh produce into Spain.

If, as this new idea proposes, then it would seem to be an open border with no Customs constraints. Really?
 
WRONG . . .

For the first time, as well as the Gibraltar border guards, there will be guards from the EU border and Coastguard Agency known as Frontex also checking passports ( . . . of all those that enter Gibraltar, by sea at the port and by air).

How is this different to the reciprocal arrangements at the ferry ports or t the Chunnel terminals?

It's a practical solution, Frontex is not taking over GIbraltar border control, it is merely a practical working relationship that allows movement between Gibralatar and Spain
 
Ummm - this kind of flies in the face of a recent document published by the Gib Government, regarding what can and cannot be taken across the border into Spain. We used to go to Gib 3 or 4 times a year to get supplies from Morrison's. Since Jan 1st we cannot take any fresh produce into Spain.

If, as this new idea proposes, then it would seem to be an open border with no Customs constraints. Really?


It's a little lacking on details and seems to be a an "in principal" agreement rather than a signed treaty
As far as I can tell there will be border manning from both Frontex and Gibraltar but essentially I think you are correct.
Being more local to it than the rest of us, does it look like a sensible solution to you?
 

4(T)

LE
How is this different to the reciprocal arrangements at the ferry ports or t the Chunnel terminals?

It's a practical solution, Frontex is not taking over GIbraltar border control, it is merely a practical working relationship that allows movement between Gibralatar and Spain


The litmus test is whether we Brits have any impedance ourselves regarding travel into Gib. If we do, then it is indeed a de facto change of sovereignty.
 
You might want to pop over and let Prince Albert know he's living in France then. You do seem to be frothing a bit.
Monaco controls its own borders. Monaco does not have French Gendarmes manning the entry points and checking passports at the Monaco quey-side.

Monaco does have a very close relationship with France . . . since Christmas, there have been a couple of very interesting programmes on TV.

Monaco's Sovereignty is COMPROMISED . . . Monaco could not survive without the co-operation of France.

Is that the same relationship about which you seem quite relaxed, and that you are happy to contemplate for Gibraltar and Spain?!
 

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