Gettng the weight off your back.

#1
My local Asda is 4-5k away, I quite like some of their prices, so I take a walk over about once a fortnight and fill a bergan. Build exercise into your routine...

So I'm trogging back yesterday having went daft on cheap spuds, carrots, apples, onions, cans.......everything dense. I'd bought so much I had two carrier bags as well. It's p*ssing, I can't clear my runny nose, I've got pins and needles bad in my hands, I'm thinking, "This isn't as much fun as it used to be".

Got home and weighed it. F'kin hell - 101.5lb in the bergan and another 17lb in the bags, plus the weight of the bergan - say 120lb. Now the interesting thing about that weight is that on the flat it doesn't really take much out of your legs. As soon as you go uphill it knackers your thighs, but bimbling on the flat the unpleasantness is caused by the pain in your shoulders. In addition, I find it impossible to generate any speed. There's a kind of natural trudge speed of about 3mph. The weight seems to kill and shorten each stride. If you try to hurry the aerobic effort isn't that great but everything starts to settle into simple harmonic motion, and you've got 100lb plus whatever the impulse is.

So, two thoughts. 1) Would it be possible to make a mould for the shoulders to do a better job of spreading the load? I don't think waistbelts work that well, particularly if you need other belts under them.

2) This sounds mad, and it couldn't work on broken terrain, but on flat rolling ground you wonder if it is impossible to stick some wheels in the bottom of the bergan and toe the f****r with a fixing point in the middle of your back.

And no I don't think it should be tartan :D

The North Vietnamese used bikes and pushed them. Actually quite clever. Big bike wheels bridge potholes.

I know that ideally you don't want to carry weight far - bergans should be centralised and moved by vehicle - but if you have to manpack a load of weight on rolling ground you are doing an awful lot of work, and suffering a lot of pain, just wearing it.
 
#4
.....opening out the discussion :D ,

is there any way to allow troops to move about with shitloads of weight without hanging it off them, because hanging weight off yourself is painful but the actual energy required to move it isn't that much - at least on the flat?

Although I appreciate it looks academic at the moment - a re-run of the Falklands (or anything like it) seems unlikely.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#5
gobbyidiot said:
I find it impossible to generate any speed. There's a kind of natural trudge speed of about 3mph. The weight seems to kill and shorten each stride. If you try to hurry the aerobic effort isn't that great but everything starts to settle into simple harmonic motion, and you've got 100lb plus whatever the impulse is.
Then you my son have failed selection…

Actually there is also the bimble speed when you move faster but in much smaller shuffly steps. Impossible up hill IIRC.

So, two thoughts. 1) Would it be possible to make a mould for the shoulders to do a better job of spreading the load? I don't think waistbelts work that well, particularly if you need other belts under them.
In theory, that’s what all that frame business about the Bergen is for. My supposition is, if you are no liking your waistbelt, that the bergan is incorrectly fitted size wise.

2) This sounds mad, and it couldn't work on broken terrain, but on flat rolling ground you wonder if it is impossible to stick some wheels in the bottom of the bergan and toe the f****r with a fixing point in the middle of your back.
The Swiss have a bergan with an optional frame that makes it into a sort of carry-on luggage. A version of that, which is what you are suggesting is probably quite possible but unfortunately, is completely G.A.Y.

And no I don't think it should be tartan :D
Yes you do…



The North Vietnamese used bikes and pushed them. Actually quite clever. Big bike wheels bridge potholes.
Japs first!
 
#6
something like this then

 
#8
I see where you are coming from, the Indians used the "litter" IIRC like a sled pulled behind you, taking the principle forward you are just creating a wheel barrow, pulled, not pushed. It would be have to be long though, otherwise you would keep clipping it with your heels.
 
#10
Lord, if you had just carried a world of shit 30k, and had another 20 to go, and "the mule" turned up, how happy would you be? You'd soil yourself.

I remember digging a trench through rock on an exposed hill in Summer when (after many hours) Engineers arrived with a big digger - two scoops, there you go.

Ah, the pleasure...........my pants looked as if they'd been dipped in yoghurt.
 
#11
Why don't you go every week instead of every two weeks. Half the weight twice the exercise.
 
#14
Shame the yanks have binned the BigDog. I'd be scared shitless by that thing coming towards me...probably be the first case of surrender to a pile of rucksacks.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#15
The problem with BigDog is that it can’t carry enough sh*t. It weighs 75kg, if its carrying any significant amount of weight then it will either (a) fall over (b) not move (c) fall over when the going gets tough and never get up again (d) have its batteries wear out before its left the car park.
The only feasible use it would have, would be to cover short distances, e.g. company resupply to platoon, and you don’t need autonomous for that, just homing or remote controlled.
Granted, it will go over or up most terrain probably better than a wheeled equivalent. But the wheeled equivalent should be more stable and longer ranged, I mean, wheels is better than legs, which is an excellent example of why God isn’t “all that smart”…
IMHO Requirements guys are getting it wrong, the idea should not be to create vehicles to carry soldiers kit, it should be to create vehicles to fight soldiers battles. UCAV is a great start, take the same tech, bung it in an Unmanned Combat Land Vehicle with a few guns on top, I understand the USMC have been using some in Iraq and they’ve had a few teething problems (e.g. unarmed kids bunging blankets on top to smother sensors and then badguys safely walking up and placing HE on it..).
 
#16
Why dont you just borrow a trolley then wheel locking things dont work if you wheely the trolley high enough to lock them.
 
#17
How about something similar to the Squad mission support system, essentially just an Argo 6x6/8x8 with simple remote control and follow the leader kit
 
#18
gobbyidiot said:
My local Asda is 4-5k away, I quite like some of their prices, so I take a walk over about once a fortnight and fill a bergan. Build exercise into your routine...

So I'm trogging back yesterday having went daft on cheap spuds, carrots, apples, onions, cans.......everything dense. I'd bought so much I had two carrier bags as well. It's p*ssing, I can't clear my runny nose, I've got pins and needles bad in my hands, I'm thinking, "This isn't as much fun as it used to be".

Got home and weighed it. F'kin hell - 101.5lb in the bergan and another 17lb in the bags, plus the weight of the bergan - say 120lb. Now the interesting thing about that weight is that on the flat it doesn't really take much out of your legs. As soon as you go uphill it knackers your thighs, but bimbling on the flat the unpleasantness is caused by the pain in your shoulders. In addition, I find it impossible to generate any speed. There's a kind of natural trudge speed of about 3mph. The weight seems to kill and shorten each stride. If you try to hurry the aerobic effort isn't that great but everything starts to settle into simple harmonic motion, and you've got 100lb plus whatever the impulse is.

So, two thoughts. 1) Would it be possible to make a mould for the shoulders to do a better job of spreading the load? I don't think waistbelts work that well, particularly if you need other belts under them.

2) This sounds mad, and it couldn't work on broken terrain, but on flat rolling ground you wonder if it is impossible to stick some wheels in the bottom of the bergan and toe the f****r with a fixing point in the middle of your back.

And no I don't think it should be tartan :D

The North Vietnamese used bikes and pushed them. Actually quite clever. Big bike wheels bridge potholes.

I know that ideally you don't want to carry weight far - bergans should be centralised and moved by vehicle - but if you have to manpack a load of weight on rolling ground you are doing an awful lot of work, and suffering a lot of pain, just wearing it.
Halve the load, shop twice in one day therefore building endurance or shop weekly instead of fortnightly. Crikey, how sad, I'm giving shopping tips to another grown man.
 
#20
2½-3 mile tabs should present no problem - especially with an empty bergen. The return journey with 100+lbs, however, will. There are better ways of keeping fit. I used to do something similar - but on a push bike - with around 50lbs. I am now paying dearly for it. Careful matey, there's no prizes for being a crippled wreck with a knackered spine - apart from loads of Nectar points. More regular light tabbing with nothing more drastic than a daysack full of beer and Doritos should be fine.
 

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