Germanys contribution to Afganistan

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by kaiser, Feb 12, 2008.

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  1. Is it me or do others think that modern germans have a problem with their squaddies going to war zones.
    They certainly didn,t have this problem in 1939.
    If you supply troops, you have to supply them at the sharp end.
    NOT just the REMF end.
  2. Very good point. Most people, however, would consider Germany's actions in 1939 to have been quite wrong. What makes you think a repeat would be appropriate.

    The German's have so far taken 29 casualties. As in dead! Now including a reservist. Hardly a REMF tour, is it?

    Now, please explain why, in your opinion, more Germans have to die to prop up failed and failing US/UK foreign policy.
  3. I was not looking for a repeat performance ( as in the last two times they decided to kick off ).
    But it seems to me that its always the same countries who supply front line troops.
  4. I know several older Germans.
    All where either teenagers at end of WW II or in he immediate years after.
    The German population was bombarded with the Allies Propergander post war and the result is many if not most adult Germans just cannot contemplate an overseas war.
    German contributed troops post 9/11 but the folk I know consider themselves betrayed by the Iraq invasion.
    All I know have stated that the Angei Merkel government would fall if she supported an aggressively overseas war.
    Reap what you have sown.
  5. On a similar subject,an interesting article from the weekly standard (via the blogs):

    The German Way of War
    How two centuries of militarism came to an end on the Eastern Front.
  6. I also know a lot of older germans, and Although they, as you rightly say feel betrayed, they also have great sympathy for the amount of losses the so called alliance have suffered, and cannot understand why their country doesnt contribute more troops.
  7. Each country has a choice whether to particpate or not. I think it's called democracy - well, sort of.

    Now, why should Germany sign up to a mission it does not agree with simply because you think they're cowards and HMG is not prepared to put its own resources into the effort?
  8. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    I wouldnt disparage the German contribution but even the most sympathetic would find it hard to say they are equal in terms of committment.

    How far back into history do you want to go?

    Germany has prospered post WWII and during the cold war NATO took its security very seriously. In defeating the Taliban and creating stability in Afghanistan that denies space for AQ to operate, plan and launch attacks against the west Germany also gains.

    The Germans need to get over the war and realise they are actually part of the big nation club, with that comes responsibilities.

    Its a very simply proposition in my view, Germany has benefitted from others committments in the last 50 odd years, time to pony up and repay the debt.
  9. So you believe that old chestnut that 'our' mission in Helmand is all about denying AQ space, do you? Well if that's true, why are 'we' not operating where AQ currently resides: Pakistan?

    Just because HMG and Washington says AQ and the Taleban is all a terribly dire threat to our security, you don't have to believe it. And nor do the Germans. And if it was really such a dire threat, why is it HMG is doing so pathetically little. I mean, we are a country of 55+ million people with the 5 or 6th largest economy in the world - and yet we can only muster 7,500 troops at a time to fight this 'good fight', and can't even support them properly with equipment!

    I suggest you look a little closer to home for answers and solutions before you start wagging fingers at the Germans.
  10. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    Whatever the reasons and I understand they are many and varied, we are there. It is what it is

    I also believe 'we' are operating in Pakistan not that that is relevant. We might be doing pathetically little as you say but we are doing quite a bit in comparison.

    I realise this has the makings of a long thread but I was just looking at it from a very simplistic point of view, if you want to be a mate, then good or bad, agree or disagree, you should help out.
  11. The Germans that I saw in Afghanistan were first class troops and excellent medics with good drills and a keen interest in doing their bit. It's the fecking politicians in Berlin and Brussels who should be kicked up the hoop, not the German army.

    (Don't mention the war, etc, World Cup and all that).
  12. That's the point, surely?!

    Having learnt their lesson the hard way - millions dead/ country in ruins etc - the Germans spent the next 50 years building a model liberal democracy the constitution & electoral system of which were specifically designed to pretty well preclude any involvement in war that was not directly in defence of home territory. This was done with maximum encouragement, including powerful economic incentives, from the wartime Allies - particularly the USA - and underpinned by a barrage of propaganda/ indoctrination aiming to make all Germans feel perpetually guilty for the "sins of their fathers".

    Hardly surprising is it that most Germans today are reluctant "warriors" in a "war" of dubious provence & purpose? The Americans, in particular, did very well out of the post '45 "settlement", and we Brits have done little for years but stereotype Germans as brutal warmongering automatons: seems a bit rich that we now expect them suddenly to revisit the less glorious aspects of their past, revive Teutonic Knighthood, and do George W Bush's bidding in his post modern "crusade" (GWB's word, not mine)!
  13. You say "Brutal warmongering automatons" like it's a bad thing!

    Just convince Merkel that they need Lebensraum in AFG to expand the EU and watch the panzers roll!
  14. I thought that under the terms that Germany signed up to NATO that UK/US put in a clause that the Germans could not be involved in 'Combat Operations'?

    Might be wrong and no doubt will be shot at if I am. :wink:

  15. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Your post, plus the addendum that the Merkel government would fall rather quicker than re-roled troops could get to theatre if she proposed it, kind of wraps up the sensible side of this thread....