Germany to Prosecute Auschwitz Guards

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
#5
Wicked bastards need sorting even though late.
 
#6
It would be great to see ALL brought to justice for the things that they did .No one try to tell me that they did not know what was going on.Even the state of germany recognises that fact by there actions
 
#7
It would be great to see ALL brought to justice for the things that they did .No one try to tell me that they did not know what was going on.Even the state of germany recognises that fact by there actions
Of course they knew what was going on. Roadster was suggesting that they were so low down the totem pole that if they'd kicked off about it they'd have ended up in the ovens themselves.

Would you have refused an order from a Standartenfuhrer whilst standing ten yards from the gas chamber doors?
 
#8
As I understand it, these were common squaddies on guard duties, rather than those who ran the extermination operation.

What were they supposed to have done?
In addition to which, you can't apply the morality of today to the products of pre-war Germany. From childhood, their entire lives had been dominated by anti-Jewish propaganda and service to Hitler and Germany.

They had no basis for determining right from wrong, and no concept of questioning or disobeying orders.
 
#10
There's a difference between being actively involved in the gassing of people and being on guard duty on the perimeter fence. Quite what prosecuting 30 blokes who half of them probably can't recall what they had to eat yesterday is good for, I don't know.
 
#12
No, actually they could have got out of it, there are more than a few reports of ss requesting postings away from the camps for reasons various. But its nice and safe behind the lines being a saidest isnt it?

Wonder why a poster here chose to use the rank of gefreiter as his straw 'everyman' surely SS Sturmmann would have been more appropriate. ...unless trying to blur the line between Heer and SS?


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#13
No, actually they could have got out of it, there are more than a few reports of ss requesting postings away from the camps for reasons various. But its nice and safe behind the lines isnt it?
So you're saying that they could have committed war crimes on the Eastern Front instead of in Auschwitz? And this would be morally preferable because...?
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
As I understand it, these were common squaddies on guard duties, rather than those who ran the extermination operation.

What were they supposed to have done? A bog-standard gefreiter refusing orders to post guard? I should imagine the camp commandant would have given them 28 days in clink to think about it, and if it happened again, then they could join the temporary guests in the ovens. Under wartime conditions, a conchie in a death camp would be a serious issue. If they were kicked out or allowed elsewhere, they may blab about that activities of the camp. Whether it is a concentration camp, death camp, gas production facility, rocket plant, you would not want the camp being publicized.

The German government seems to be saying that these blokes should have volunteered themselves for the gas chambers, unless I have misunderstood.

Unsavoury as it is, it is also ludicrous.
If I'm to be shot down on this, Arrse is the site to do it, but I am not aware of any instance during WW2 where a German soldier was subjected to capital punishment for refusing to participate in an atrocity.

For example:

Professor Dr Franz Six, in charge of Vorkommando Moskau:
"During the war a person could at least try to have himself transferred from an Einsatzgruppe. I myself managed to do this successfully… I was not demoted as a result of my transfer and not disadvantaged, apart from remaining on very bad terms with Heydrich until his death. There were without doubt cases where people who were transferred from an Einsatzgruppe suffered disadvantage. I can no longer recall individual cases. None the less, as far as I know, nobody was shot as a result."
 
#15
Didn't the American space programe and other science and medical areas get a significant kick up the arrse from various Nazi knowledge? Some gained through nefarious means.

I've got it paperclipped around here somewhere...

If they weren't done and hung in the '40s why do it now?
 
#16
If I'm to be shot down on this, Arrse is the site to do it, but I am not aware of any instance during WW2 where a German soldier was subjected to capital punishment for refusing to participate in an atrocity.
I cannot find a reference but I am telling the truth.

Once in the Netherlands (or possible but very unlikely Belgium) I saw a memorial to a Wehrmacht soldier who had been ordered to participate in the a firing squad to kill civilian hostages after some act of Resistance. He laid his rifle down and refused to commit murder. The officer ordered him onto the line with the hostages and he was shot along with them. The locals remembered his moral courage and erected a memorial to him after the war.

I can't remember his name (it was about 25 years ago) or the town, but I later drank a Schnapps to his memory.
 
#18
So you're saying that they could have committed war crimes on the Eastern Front instead of in Auschwitz? And this would be morally preferable because...?
A straw argument.....still carry on trying to defend the indefensible

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#19
A straw argument.....still carry on trying to defend the indefensible
**** you, I'm not defending them. If every guard had been lined up and machine-gunned at the time I'd give not a hoot.

Taking confused, dying old men, former footsoldiers, into court (especially considering the number of officers, and swine like Von Braun, let off at the time as their knowledge was useful), so some politicians and prosecutors can garner a bit of publicity, is a load of rubbish and you know it.
 
#20
Nazi Murder: Germany May Prosecute 30 Former Auschwitz Guards - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Bit wierd...

In addition to Auschwitz, where some 1.5 million people were murdered during the Holocaust, and Sobibor, Schrimm's office plans to focus on the death camps Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek and Treblinka. He noted that there are no plans to broaden the investigation to include concentration camps such as Dachau, Bergen-Belsen and others because, although tens of thousands of people died in those places, they were not established solely for the purpose of extermination, making the application of the Demjanjuk precedent doubtful.
We covered this last night, I stated that 'concentration camps' were distinct from 'extermination camps', but they seem to want to go after anybody at a 'extermination camp' even if you worked in (say) the kitchen for the guards, yet not Bergan-Belson (for example) I seem to recall from my time at Hohne that there were more than a few cnuts at Belson who could propbably do with rounding up ahead of the aushwitz plate lickers.
 
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