Germany & the End of Conscription

Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by rampant, Mar 17, 2011.

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  1. rampant

    rampant LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    The Guardian has begun new week long studies of our neighbouring Europeans, this week has been Germany, this article seemed of particular interest.

    Marching orders for conscription in Germany, but what will take its place? | World news | The Guardian

  2. Seems to the usual Guardian left wing slant on things, men going backpacking in Thailand rather than doing National service? Yeah just like all the British men in the UK do :roll:
    Most boxheads I know approved of national service, its probably only being binned because someone wants to save money in the short term. Once they stop it, it will be next to impossible to start up again.
    The Guardian doesnt seem to have done its homework too well, there were German troops in Croatia in 1996.

  3. Might have actually came from the Bundswer itself. I read a story out of Germany that pointed at conscription as limiting the operational effectiveness of the Bunsdwer due to the issues of having to administer to thousands of troops which weren't deployable or there for any kind of long term commitment.
    Killing Time: For Conscripts, German Military Service is Battle against Boredom - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
  4. absolutely no leftwing slant at all.

    you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about again and making presumptions.
    more and more guys who have to do Wehrpflicht try and dodge it every year. it's simply pointless, outdated and a waste of money.
  5. Another interesting development, info given to me from a German guy on another forum, this is from a presentation from the Inspector of the Army on the new force structure:

    Which translates as:

    The German fellow added:

    So for once the Germans are copying the Brits in a small way!
  6. I missed this until it was bumped, as I serve with German soldiers and civvies and you live in Switzerland, I'd say you were talking bollocks (and not for the first time) The Krauts have social work for those who want to avoid joining up.
    Taking 18 years old off the street, giving them a job for several months, teaching them teamwork, giving them an education and not being an idle **** is ,in your opinon pointless, outdated and a waste of money? Wait until you come back to the UK and let me know if you think the same.
    • Like Like x 4
  7. The worst outcome of this scenario is the "Zivildienst", you had a choice, or if unfit for military service, had to spend the same amount of time as a "Zivvi" as you would of in the BW, this normally involved OAP and Child Care. Now that the obligation for both has gone, we see "OAP Care" companies growing like weeds and raking it in to abuse your Grandparents for princely sums from the Krankenkassen.

    Its a win-win for the private sector, and for the BW, who have launched a massive Ad campaign and will no doubt be able to recruit along our lines, although the BW is divided into an old fashioned "3 class Army", Berufssoldat, Zeitsoldat, and Offizierslaufbahn, this needs modernising into at least our system of two.
  8. This is what the Bundeswher of the near future will look like. In German but the charts are pretty self-explanatory:

    And also the major equipment holdings:

    Künftig noch 225 Leos bei der Bundeswehr (mit Korrektur) : Augen geradeaus


    Leopard 2 – reduction from 350 to 225
    Puma – reduction from 410 to 350 (deliveries starting in 2013)
    Marder – to be removed from service
    GTK Boxer - still 272
    Fuchs - still 765
    Fennek - still 212
    Panzerhaubitze 2000 – reduction from 148 to 81
    MLRS – reduction from 55 to 38
    NH90 – reduction from 122 to 80
    Tiger – reduction from 80 to 40
    Bo105 - to be removed from service

    Air Force

    Eurofighter – reduction from 177 to 140 (all multi-role)
    Tornado – reduction from 185 to 85
    Transall – reduction from 80 to 60
    A400M – reduction from 60 to 40
    CH-53 – reduction from 82 to 64
    Global Hawk – reduction from 6 to 4
    SAATEG MALE UAV – reduction from 22 to 16
    CSAR - requirement for 19 kits, but no immediate procurement
    Patriot – reduction from 29 to 14
    Mantis/NBS C-RAM - still 4


    P-3C Orion - still 8
    SeaKing/Sea Lynx - reduction from 21 res. 22 to 0, but 30 new naval helicopters will be acquired (no decision on which type)
    Frigate F122 – to be removed from service
    Frigate F123 - still 4
    Frigate F124 - still 3
    Frigate F125 - still 4
    Corvette K130 - still 5
    Multi Role Combat Vessel 180 – reduction from 8 to 6
    Submarine U212 - still 6
    Mine Countermeasure Vessels – reduction from 20 to 10
    Fleet Service Vessels - still 3
    Joint Support Ship - 2 are planned, but no immediate procurement

    Some info is still missing (e.g. how many Dingo MRAPs, Ozelot self-propelled SAM systems, Wiesels etc.).
  9. Does that allready count a thread necromancy...well, who cares :p

    The shit about the conscrips system in its last stages was:
    What can you do with some who only in the force for 9 or 10 month? They barely know whats the dangerous end on a rifle.
    So as a company Co you are fucked. You had conscripts and enlisted soldiers in your company. You can't take the conscripts on the deployments,yet you have to train your enlisted who will be with you on the deployment. So you end up letting them make coffee/clean the floors (insert other shitty work here) so you have your hands free, to do propper training for your "real" soldiers.

    I was all for the conscript system!! (If its still where at least 15-18 month service, and you'd be able to deploy them on missions)
    This 9 month "army-internship" was an utter waste on money and men.
  10. the thing that worries me is , that the social services in germany will take a used to have a choise if you wanted to do your national service or do social service. many lads that wanted to study medicine ,or similar chose social service...elderly transport , meals on wheels etc......wonder what will happen there?

    Ahem ...............just seen aleegee's post ...........carry on
  11. at some point the bundeswehr was thinking about making hohne the biggest kaserne in the north............not sure if that is still on the agenda, but many smaller kasernen are closeing around there
  12. I would be surprised if National Service was any more popular with the Germans than it was with the British. Apart from myopic members of the great British civilian public who continue to peer through rose-tinted glasses and who look on its passing with regret, it was largely a disastrous waste of time. It was continued after the war solely to provide the levels of manpower required for the great retreat from empire.

    For the majority of conscripts it was a waste of 18 months (or 2 years) of their lives. For the majority of the regular army it was a waste of time and resources having to train, supervise and deploy a large body of men who, for the most part, resented being there, took every opportunity to skive and merely counted the days off to demob.

    For those that say that it gave young men a sense of pride, purpose and discipline.... well, the Kray twins were National Servicemen.
  13. Didn't you get a nice suit when your left?
  14. D'you know, I don't think that they even had that to look forward to. I believe that demob suits died out after WW2. I think that they got the back the civvy clothes that they had to parcel up when they first arrived at their training depots.
  15. Well if not some pride and discipline, the it has at last made the hint that you don't have ONLY a shitload of rights, but also some duty.
    But you're right, it was an awfully expensive way to do that. An with no credible threat to our territory in sight there is nor argument for a mass army left.

    We've had 450 000 men under arms (+ about 700 000 reservists). There EVERY male got drafted. In the last stages there where only about 40- 50 000 conscripts at max in the forces.
    It was not only a wast of money, but also utterly unjust (only about 30% of the young men got drafted and basicly lost one year to make a carrer).

    As the red army left our doorstep, the need for conscription was effectively gone. But we nursed it for some years on (tbh).
    Much like you do with your Rgt system ;-)