Germany officially recognises colonial-era Namibia genocide

Just saw this pop up on the BBC. Linky

'German colonisers killed tens of thousands of Herero and Nama people there in early 20th Century massacres.'

I must admit I never realised Namibia was part of the German empire or the South Africa ruled it after WW1
WW1 campaign against German colonies in West and East Africa, Pacific and China are little known about today -

First World War​

Main article: South West Africa Campaign



Map of the 1915 South West Africa Campaign

During the First World War, South African troops opened hostilities with an assault on the Ramansdrift police station on 13 September 1914. German settlers were transported to concentration camps near Pretoria and later in Pietermaritzburg. Because of the overwhelming numerical superiority of the South African troops, the German Schutztruppe, along with groups of Afrikaner volunteers fighting in the Maritz Rebellion on the German side, offered opposition only as a delaying tactic. On 9 July 1915, Victor Franke, the last commander of the Schutztruppe, capitulated near Khorab.

Two members of the Schutztruppe, geography professors Fritz Jaeger and Leo Waibel, are remembered for their explorations of the northern part of German South West Africa, which became the book Contributions to the Geography of South West Africa (Beiträge zur Landeskunde von Südwestafrika).[21]


Postwar​

After the war, the territory came under the control of Britain and then was made a South African League of Nations mandate. The colony developed peacefully under British rule. In 1990, the former colony became independent as Namibia, governed by the former liberation movement SWAPO.


German legacy​

Many German names, buildings, and businesses still exist in the country, and about 30,000 people of German descent still live there. German is still widely used in Namibia, with the Namibian Broadcasting Corporation operating a German-language radio station and broadcasting television news bulletins in German, while the daily newspaper Allgemeine Zeitung, founded in 1916, remains in publication.[22] Deukom, a satellite television service, offers television and radio channels from Germany.[23]

In addition, Lutheranism is the predominant Christian denomination in present-day Namibia.
 
I take it that the two examples you are thinking of is the Holocaust and Congo? Neither were the fault of the “anglo-saxons”, although I do agree that the Anglo-Saxon have form when it comes to mass slaughter.

Around 700AD they colonised the Isle of Wight after they slaughtered the entire population. So if there’s every any claims for the evils of past colonisation, the caulkheads should get first dibs.
No, I am referring two two world wars that ravaged the continent of Europe that caused immense destruction and loss of life on a scale never previously seen on planet earth.

Thus proving (contrary to the assertion of the poster to whom I was replying) that far from Africans being savage killers and "not like us", in actual fact when it comes to mass butchery and slaughter Europeans (including Anglo-Saxons who actively took part in both wars) have no match in all of the appalling history of mankind. Europe, of which the UK is part, is the real savage continent, not Africa, it has always been thus.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
No, I am referring two two world wars that ravaged the continent of Europe that caused immense destruction and loss of life on a scale never previously seen on planet earth.

Thus proving (contrary to the assertion of the poster to whom I was replying) that far from Africans being savage killers and "not like us", in actual fact when it comes to mass butchery and slaughter Europeans (including Anglo-Saxons who actively took part in both wars) have no match in all of the appalling history of mankind. Europe, of which the UK is part, is the real savage continent, not Africa, it has always been thus.
Genghis Khan, Mao, Stalin just don't count then? That's before we get on to Genzo of Dahomy, Queen Ranavalona and Shaka Zulu of course.
 

Jacl

Old-Salt
"Germany has officially acknowledged committing genocide during its colonial occupation of Namibia, and announced financial aid worth more than €1.1bn (£940m; $1.34bn)"
That's El Presidentes gold plated Mercedes paid for for the next 30 years. Might even be something left over for his family, mates and stooges.

Wot me cynical?
 
Europe, of which the UK is part, is the real savage continent, not Africa, it has always been thus.
I'm not saying Europe is without sin in the genocide department, but it has not always been the beast you make it out to be. If Ghengis Khan or Ramasses II had had the technology, I'm sure they could have competed with Stalin or Hitler in the numbers game.
 
Genghis Khan, Mao, Stalin just don't count then?
Stalin I will include as part of the European problem.

Ghengis Khan and Mao, were ha'penny players when it comes to the sheer hellish violence and vast millions of people slaughtered in Europe's wars, particularly in the 20th century but also over the best part of the previous millennium (if Ghenghis Khan is your time frame) including the Napoleonic wars and the 30 Years War and all the other hundreds of wars and conquests, genocides and barbarism.

When Africans have reached the scale of the sheer savagery of the Western Front or the Holocaust or the aerial bombardment of cities or atomic bombs or the concentration camps or the gulags (and that's just the previous century) come back to me and I will discuss how savage the Africans are compared with the oh-so-civilised Europeans.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Stalin I will include as part of the European problem.

Ghengis Khan and Mao, were ha'penny players when it comes to the sheer hellish violence and vast millions of people slaughtered in Europe's wars, particularly in the 20th century but also over the best part of the previous millennium (if Ghenghis Khan is your time frame) including the Napoleonic wars and the 30 Years War and all the other hundreds of wars and conquests, genocides and barbarism.

When Africans have reached the scale of the sheer savagery of the Western Front or the Holocaust or the aerial bombardment of cities or atomic bombs or the concentration camps or the gulags (and that's just the previous century) come back to me and I will discuss how savage the Africans are compared with the oh-so-civilised Europeans.
You really think that if any of them had had access to the technology Germany did, they'd have said, "Hang on this is a bit much, let's not use it"? If so you're even stupider than I imagined, which is pretty impressive.
 
No, I am referring two two world wars that ravaged the continent of Europe that caused immense destruction and loss of life on a scale never previously seen on planet earth.

Thus proving (contrary to the assertion of the poster to whom I was replying) that far from Africans being savage killers and "not like us", in actual fact when it comes to mass butchery and slaughter Europeans (including Anglo-Saxons who actively took part in both wars) have no match in all of the appalling history of mankind. Europe, of which the UK is part, is the real savage continent, not Africa, it has always been thus.
I can agree with that. However, I’d argue that the Anglo-Saxon’s didn’t start either of those (although we were very good at learning harsh lessons and then outdoing our teachers).
 
Stalin I will include as part of the European problem.

Ghengis Khan and Mao, were ha'penny players when it comes to the sheer hellish violence and vast millions of people slaughtered in Europe's wars, particularly in the 20th century but also over the best part of the previous millennium (if Ghenghis Khan is your time frame) including the Napoleonic wars and the 30 Years War and all the other hundreds of wars and conquests, genocides and barbarism.

When Africans have reached the scale of the sheer savagery of the Western Front or the Holocaust or the aerial bombardment of cities or atomic bombs or the concentration camps or the gulags (and that's just the previous century) come back to me and I will discuss how savage the Africans are compared with the oh-so-civilised Europeans.
You're confusing individual or tribal savagery with industrialised, mechanised, savagery.
That Europeans, and the European colonists, developed better ways of killing people en masse doesn't make them more savage, just far more efficient.
 

llech

LE
You certainly don't study geography if you think Africa is the world. It didn't even involve all of Africa, at best a third of it.
I don't care what you fkn think, that's what it's know as. I'm not in the business of naming wars.
 
Comparing Tutsi v Hutu with the boxheads v Mr Atkins is moot. Until very recently, sub-Saharan Africa was not much different from the Stone Age.

I like to think that the rest of the world - despite its imperfections - has eschewed the less salubrious traits of African society: arbitrarily slaughtering and eating each other, not to mention anything juju-related.

It was precisely these very unwholesome practices which shocked Victorian society and prompted the more severe punitive measures meted out by the British, which were generally carried out as reprisals for some atrocity or other.

However (and contrary to popular belief) we were not the Waffen SS. Maybe if the Scramble for Africa had been more 'robust' then the benighted continent might be in better fettle than it is today?
 
Stalin I will include as part of the European problem.
Convenient that

More over theres not a small number of the 2nd great European unpleasantness victims who can be placed at the feet of a rather unpleasant most certainly not European nation - who incidently hadent exactly been paragons of restraint and tolerance in the years preceeding what we consider to be the start of ww2 across large swathes of Asia (edit to correct continent)

Ghengis Khan and Mao, were ha'penny players when it comes to the sheer hellish violence and vast millions of people slaughtered

I beg to differ
Ghengis may well have matched WW2 totals accounts vary - but even if in terms of numbers he didnt match ww2 - he certainly out did it in terms of percentage of global population.


Mao - no i agree he didnt butcher millions in warfare - he simply did in his own population and i suppose Pol Pot was just misguided

in Europe's wars, particularly in the 20th century but also over the best part of the previous millennium (if Ghenghis Khan is your time frame) including the Napoleonic wars and the 30 Years War and all the other hundreds of wars and conquests, genocides and barbarism.

When Africans have reached the scale of the sheer savagery of the Western Front or the Holocaust or the aerial bombardment of cities or atomic bombs
Again you may want to look at what happened to cities across the globe pre 20th century - no shortage of accounts where entire cities have been razed and the population slaughtered or sold into slavery

The technology is differrnt im not so sure id argue nuking hiroshima was more immoral than fire bombing Tokyo or Genghis raising the black tent and slaughtering every living soul within - or the romans destroying carthage - salting the ground and taking the survivors into slavery.

or the concentration camps or the gulags (and that's just the previous century) come back to me and I will discuss how savage the Africans are compared with the oh-so-civilised Europeans.
No shortage of genocides where white folk arent involved.

The holocaust is so prominent not because of numbers but because it was carried out by a European country at a time when it was felt we were above that behaviour our societies had evolved and that genocide and that rape ,murder and looting of captured cities was no longer acceptable* which by and large didnt happen in the West.
It did on the Eastern front of course but both combatants went to great lengths to dehumanise the enemy a far better indicator of imminent attrocities than Skin colour, geographic location or being Anglo saxon


*Something the British had deemed hanging offences before the Napoleonic wars and why Badajoz stands out as a stark aberration.
Contrast to the French whose policy was to loot the locals thus enabling the army to move faster by easing the logistics burden.

The more cynical may well question how much was down to a British sense of fair play, the need to have strict rules to keep the British army in check at all times or just the sheer determination of Wellington that when British troops marched into France - they wouldnt have an increasingly vengeful population in their rear as had plagued france and crippled its armies in Spain.
 

llech

LE
Nor in the business of accuracy, factual information, or indeed reality either it seems.
Right, I'm struggling here, do you think I've just made up the name African world war for dramatic effect or its being bigged up? Its an objective fact it won't go away just because you stamp your feet.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Right, I'm struggling here, do you think I've just made up the name African world war for dramatic effect or its being bigged up? Its an objective fact it won't go away just because you stamp your feet.
It's not actually a fact though, from your link
"The Second Congo War (also known as the Great War of Africa or the Great African War, and sometimes referred to as the African World War", it could be referred to as the Great Martian Intergalactic War, it still wouldn't be right.
 
You're confusing individual or tribal savagery with industrialised, mechanised, savagery.
That Europeans, and the European colonists, developed better ways of killing people en masse doesn't make them more savage, just far more efficient.
It's pretty well known that Europeans are great problem solvers, if there's a shortcut or easier way to do something - you can be rest assured that method will be found. Whether it's making hundreds or cars every day for profit, or slotting people and disposing of the corpses, you can be rest assured that it will be done efficiently with the least amount of resources used.
Africans on the other hand are not as smart - so although they are good at killing and 419 scams, they just can't match the enthusiasm and efficiency of the average European psychopath has, or the "Vorsprung Durch Technik" methods that the Germans have perfected over the years.
I see the French are having a spot of trouble in Mali just now - I wonder how that will play out?
 

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