Germany has created an accidental empire

This article was published in early 2013, but it only just came to my attention. I don't think I have read a larger sack of testicular nonsense in the last 20 years! For example:

"The third point is that we should not only think about a new Europe, we also have to think about how the European nations have to change. They are part of the process and I would say that Europe is about redefining the national interest in a European way. Europe is not an obstacle to national sovereignty; it is the necessary means to improve national sovereignty. Nationalism is now the enemy of the nation because only through the European Union can these countries have genuine sovereignty"

The article is here: http://www.socialeurope.eu/2013/03/germany-has-created-an-accidental-empire/

Some of the readers comments are worth a look too.

So what do the august intelligentsia of arrse think about the article,? Is it true that the UK is losing its veto? Can national sovereignty only be guaranteed by integrating fully with Europe? Is the article simply socialist claptrap or is there a real meaning to it?
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
RIP
Ein volk, ein Reich .. what's the other bit?
 
This article was published in early 2013, but it only just came to my attention. I don't think I have read a larger sack of testicular nonsense in the last 20 years! For example:

"The third point is that we should not only think about a new Europe, we also have to think about how the European nations have to change. They are part of the process and I would say that Europe is about redefining the national interest in a European way. Europe is not an obstacle to national sovereignty; it is the necessary means to improve national sovereignty. Nationalism is now the enemy of the nation because only through the European Union can these countries have genuine sovereignty"

The article is here: http://www.socialeurope.eu/2013/03/germany-has-created-an-accidental-empire/

Some of the readers comments are worth a look too.

So what do the august intelligentsia of arrse think about the article,? Is it true that the UK is losing its veto? Can national sovereignty only be guaranteed by integrating fully with Europe? Is the article simply socialist claptrap or is there a real meaning to it?

Nothing accidental about it.
 
They haven't so much created an empire as a client base, to whom they provide both the goods and the financial services to purchase them. A bit like DFS on a grand scale. In fact instead of 'Discount Furniture Store' they have established the 'Deutsches Finanz System'.

Before any German language pedants start, I know it should be 'Deutsches Finanzsystem', but then the abbreviation wouldn't work would it?
 
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I agree with eodmat, it is socialist management type speak.
Like with Littlejohn, Boris et all there is some sense surrounded by bs.
Germany will probobly end up the senior partner in the EU, the only people who could have realisticaly countered her was a fully involved UK (simply because we would expect to).
 

Lomax

War Hero
Nice find, I am not sure what the guy really is after

"The fourth point is that European modernity, which has been distributed all over the world, is a suicidal project. It’s producing all kinds of basic problems, such as climate change and the financial crisis."

Which I would say were the results of the British industrial revolution, but hey history isn't taught anymore so he can call it the European modernity and claim it as a European achievement. My guess is that his solution to this problem of personal freedom is more wise guidance from the men from Brussels to fix all our problems and tell us what is right and wrong.

"Nationalism is now the enemy of the nation because only through the European Union can these countries have genuine sovereignty"

So we can only have real sovereignty by surrendering our rights to self government, utter gibberish.

It is all the usual politics of fear, fear that as separate countries we are not strong enough to stand alone and will be at the whim of other larger nations, and only by surrendering our powers to a benevolent supra national organisation of the EU can we hope to have any influence in the world.

Yet which each power surrendered causes more problems requiring even more sovereignty to be taken away and centralised, the countries that have forged ahead with the bold new Euro now find that their finance and spending plans are ever more dictated by a little group of people in Brussels, lucky even Gordon was not that foolish to commit us further.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
RIP
"Nationalism is now the enemy of the nation because only through the European Union can these countries have genuine sovereignty"

Almost as good as 'Arbeit Macht Frei'. Except that this time the Fuhrer has no face.

George Orwell would have been proud to have thought up this piece of doublespeak for '1984'.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Although the Boxheeds talk a good theory, they’re actually heading for financial disaster. Not only do they have a couple of trillion of national debt to pay off, but also have to figure out some way of writing off the further couple of trillion they’ve sidelined as bad debt “bought” from their crippled banks.

On top of that, they have the huge problem of how to square the circle with regard to the payments of civil-servant pensions. These aren’t paid from the pension funds, but rather from taxes and they comprise 75 percent of the last salary. There’s also the fact that fully 25 percent of workers in Germany are employed by the state. It’s because of that huge, ungainly and very expensive state-company spread that the last time Germany had a balanced budget was 1961. At some point in the next decade, the bubble will burst.

MsG
 
Germany does have a history of getting a bit carried away with its self.
 

sguyw

LE
the last time Germany had a balanced budget was 1961. At some point in the next decade, the bubble will burst.

MsG

I think that they have a bit longer than that, I give them 25 years before the bubble go tits up, as soon as all the long term bonds and loans need paying.
 

Good CO

Admin
Although the Boxheeds talk a good theory, they’re actually heading for financial disaster. Not only do they have a couple of trillion of national debt to pay off, but also have to figure out some way of writing off the further couple of trillion they’ve sidelined as bad debt “bought” from their crippled banks.

On top of that, they have the huge problem of how to square the circle with regard to the payments of civil-servant pensions. These aren’t paid from the pension funds, but rather from taxes and they comprise 75 percent of the last salary. There’s also the fact that fully 25 percent of workers in Germany are employed by the state. It’s because of that huge, ungainly and very expensive state-company spread that the last time Germany had a balanced budget was 1961. At some point in the next decade, the bubble will burst.

MsG

So your bubble has been inflating for over 50 years (since 1962) and from your description is a bubble that contains the entire economy of Europe's financial power house? Roman Empire? Also a bubble?
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
So your bubble has been inflating for over 50 years (since 1962) and from your description is a bubble that contains the entire economy of Europe's financial power house? Roman Empire? Also a bubble?
It must be remembered that Germany is a republic, a federation. As such, the individual federal states have the power to enter into loan agreements, which they do to cover their budget deficits. All of those debts are ultimately guaranteed by the federal gobment in Berlin. In addition, the various cities and municipalities can also accumulate debts. All that has been steadily going on in the past decades. Then came unification and all the further unexpected debts that were supposed to be paid from the petty cash account (according to fatman Kohl).

It was only after reunification that the civil-servant status (Beamtenstatus) was revised and, slightly, altered. Before that, it was unbelievable just how many “civil servants” there were. Obviously those who worked in local and national authorities, but also posties, binmen, train drivers and conductors, the Old Bill, teachers, university professors and a whole lot more. A lot of those who were originally engaged under the “old” conditions are now coming up to pensionable age and that’s going to create a lot of financial problems for the country. Don’t forget that the manifest reluctance to carry out a radical reform programme has continually been effectively stymied by the politicians themselves, many of whom are also former “Beamte”. Without major reforms, there’s no way that Germany can finance those pensions and at the same time keep up all the various institutions dependent on official financing that give the politicians and their friends a secure income after their careers.

I don’t believe that any comparison with the Roman Empire is applicable in this case.

MsG
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
So your bubble has been inflating for over 50 years (since 1962) and from your description is a bubble that contains the entire economy of Europe's financial power house? Roman Empire? Also a bubble?

Well, it did rather over-reach itself and just look at the state it's in now.
 

Good CO

Admin
@DaManBugs - and the bubble? German states are not Spanish regions. No wild spending sprees, rampant building corruption, and massive white elephant projects. Civil servants? Complain all you like, and I'm sure there is plenty of room for reform (which will happen as financial pressure to do so increases), but civil servants do not make 50 year long 'bubbles'. All in all, I really cannot see Germany bursting in the next 10 years.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
@DaManBugs - and the bubble? German states are not Spanish regions. No wild spending sprees, rampant building corruption, and massive white elephant projects. Civil servants? Complain all you like, and I'm sure there is plenty of room for reform (which will happen as financial pressure to do so increases), but civil servants do not make 50 year long 'bubbles'. All in all, I really cannot see Germany bursting in the next 10 years.
I’ve kept myself informed about Germany from a natural interest, Good CO. Here’s a very good article about the “hidden debts” in the country. The German word for “billion” is “Milliarde” and for “trillion” it’s “Billion”. It makes sobering reading because just the “hidden debts” amount to 7.85 trillion euros. That’s not counting the other “hidden debts” I already mentioned in a previous post in the amount of around 3.5 trillion euros, i.e. the toxic derivatives that were bought up to bail out the banks and are not “officially” on the books. .

http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik...ulden-dem-staat-fehlen-billionen/3440084.html

With regard to corruption: you would simply not believe the sheer level of bribery, fraud and sleaze in Germany and just how dishonest, crooked and fraudulent the politicians are. If you want to gain an insight into just how corrupt things are in Germany, you could do worse than read the book “Macht und Missbrauch” by Wilhelm Schlötterer. And that’s just about one federal state (Bavaria).

MsG
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
@DaManBugs - and the bubble? German states are not Spanish regions. No wild spending sprees, rampant building corruption, and massive white elephant projects. Civil servants? Complain all you like, and I'm sure there is plenty of room for reform (which will happen as financial pressure to do so increases), but civil servants do not make 50 year long 'bubbles'. All in all, I really cannot see Germany bursting in the next 10 years.

The German economy does have an ageing problem, a little like Japan over the last 20 years. It needs to import lots of young immigrants to make it continue working. If you like, there is a 50 year long shadow cast by the Wunderwirtschaft.

I would expect the Germans to fix that, however.
 

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