German SA dagger.

#1
Gents,

Running around a bit in Eastern Europe and found a nice German ceremonial dagger that caught my eye the other day. I'm told its an SA dagger? Not sure what it means.

It looks to be in very good condition, the odd little chip here and there but not much pitting on the blade itself. Handle/markings are in good nick, and i assume is an original.

Does anyone know what sort of price these go for in the UK? And are they fairly collectible?

Cheers.

 
#2
Sure its not a Spanish copy?
Thats were these wonderful things are still made. :roll:
Now, first of all, you are not sure what SA means???
Ok, what are the markings - can you do a close-up?
 
#3
Sturmabteilung or Assault Detachment normally translated to 'Stormtroopers'

Headed up at the time by Ernst Röhm who was killed/murdered by Hitler and the SS
 
#5
The SA were the original Nazi brown shirts.

SA = Sturmabteilung (Storm Battalion).

In the 1920s all German political parties had their own strong arm squads. This was the one belonging to the NSDAP better known as the Nazi Party.

On 28 Jan 23 6,000 of them paraded for their first national rally. By 1933 120,000 were on parade

The SA dagger was introduced on 15 Dec 33. The blade is normally inscribed Alles fur Deutschland but those who joined before 31 Dec 31 received daggers with In Hoerzlicher Freundschaft Ernst Rohm. 125,960 of these were issued.
 
#6
Particularly nice blade, but i'd be cautious about the scabbard, it looks too dark, probably an NSKK one (National Sozialistiche Kraft Korps), you have a post 1931 blade there, one of about 125,000 so it's probably a mismatch.

Try this site to gain a bit more info, they seem to be the mutts nuts as per identification........

http://www.lakesidetrader.com/sa.html


Worth £195 - 250 depending on provenance and condition


If it had been the first pattern "Rohm" £2300 - 2500
 
#7
Yes, looks like a SS scabbard with SA dagger... my guess is still 1980's ($30?) Spanish manufacture... stand to be corrected once I have seen the markings.
 
#8
There are a lot of fakes of this type of thing so get it checked out.

If it's genuine I believe some types will pay serious dosh for them.
 
#9
LancePrivateJones said:
If it's genuine I believe some types will pay serious dosh for them.
Basic SA Holbein's are dirt cheap compared to the rarer ones mate...£250 for a good one, unless of course you find a "Gullible Tourist"...SORRY....American...
 
#10
Blue/GreenJob said:
LancePrivateJones said:
If it's genuine I believe some types will pay serious dosh for them.
Basic SA Holbein's are dirt cheap compared to the rarer ones mate...£250 for a good one, unless of course you find a "Gullible Tourist"...SORRY....American...
That was sort of what I meant B/G J.

:D
 
#11
Cheers for the info.

I found it in an antiques shop in western Ukraine earlier today. The only German piece i could see, surrounded by deac Red Army Mosin's and PPSH's.

It could well be a fake i'm sure, the stamp is a pre "VM" type, but i cannot find it to match online with any of the German manufacturers listed. Seems far for a Spanish copy to travel, but you never know! Is it possible they were manufactured locally for Ukrainian Wehrmacht units? I will pop back to the shop next couple of days and get some better pics, i only had my phone with me earlier.

The cheeky chap wanted $1000 for it. I don't mind parting with $3-400 if it is the real deal however. He did mention about the scabbard coming from an SS dagger that had been sold seperately.
 
#12
wrighty said:
Cheers for the info.

I found it in an antiques shop in western Ukraine earlier today. The only German piece i could see, surrounded by deac Red Army Mosin's and PPSH's.

It could well be a fake i'm sure, the stamp is a pre "VM" type, but i cannot find it to match online with any of the German manufacturers listed.
So be aware. Try to get a shot of the markings.
Seems far for a Spanish copy to travel, but you never know! Is it possible they were manufactured locally for Ukrainian Wehrmacht units?
No. First its SA not Wehrmacht and second I think that extraordinary paramilitary unit had ceased to exist (to all intents and purposes) by then.
I will pop back to the shop next couple of days and get some better pics, i only had my phone with me earlier.
The cheeky chap wanted $1000 for it. I don't mind parting with $3-400 if it is the real deal however.
Don't if you are not 100% sure.
He did mention about the scabbard coming from an SS dagger that had been sold seperately.
That settles it! No way in hell would someone buy just the dagger and leave the matching scabbard...
Anyway, your call.
 

Pararegtom

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
I was Lvov and Ivano frakivs,ka recently and they do have a cottage industry for making (Original relics ) so be aware.

It may be the real thing However the locals are canny.
 
#15
Plenty of fakes around that aren't Spanish, but East German/Russian in origin.

Used to avoid the SS/SA stuff, even in the late 80's early 90's. The Luftwaffe Daggers that were on offer seemed more genuine.
 
#16
PartTimePongo said:
Plenty of fakes around that aren't Spanish, but East German/Russian in origin.
As in GDR??? Now that is interesting. So where did they manufacture Sturmabteilung daggers in the GDR, any more details?
 
#17
Just repeating what I was told some time ago by my Polish colleagues PM, apparently there was a cottage industry in the GDR knocking these sorts of items out. Maybe Bugsy would know something on this?
 
#18
Just repeating what I was told some time ago by my Polish colleagues PM, apparently there was a cottage industry in the GDR knocking these sorts of items out. Maybe Bugsy would know something on this?
 
#19
LancePrivateJones said:
Blue/GreenJob said:
LancePrivateJones said:
If it's genuine I believe some types will pay serious dosh for them.
Basic SA Holbein's are dirt cheap compared to the rarer ones mate...£250 for a good one, unless of course you find a "Gullible Tourist"...SORRY....American...
That was sort of what I meant B/G J.

:D
Thanks but no thanks. 8) I already have the one my dad picked up in his walking tour of Europe in the 40s. :wink: One prior careful owner. :lol: :p
 
#20
Ruckerwocman said:
LancePrivateJones said:
Blue/GreenJob said:
LancePrivateJones said:
If it's genuine I believe some types will pay serious dosh for them.
Basic SA Holbein's are dirt cheap compared to the rarer ones mate...£250 for a good one, unless of course you find a "Gullible Tourist"...SORRY....American...
That was sort of what I meant B/G J.

:D
Thanks but no thanks. 8) I already have the one my dad picked up in his walking tour of Europe in the 40s. :wink: One prior careful owner. :lol: :p
AND of course there are a few of our cousins across the pond that know what they are looking at....

I must admit i've seen a few of you renegade colonials in York doing the "tourist thing" and you've got to admit that quite a few would fall for that "A genuine piece of history" spiel eh?

I heard one guy from Minnesota stating that we English looked after things SO well that even the walls of the city looked as if they had been vacated by the guards only yesterday...I hadn't the heart to tell him they'd been "renovated" rather unsympathetically by the Victorians.......
 

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