GENFORCE RANT

GENFORCE IS BOLLOX?

  • Of Course the Pamphlet Says so - It Had an EOT Date (Unlike Many)

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#1
Ok here it is:

GENFORCE was designed to run out...well a few years ago yet still it persists. Unfortunately the vaguely promising bits of it (ROWEN Pams) were phased out in favour of Mobile Forces and now even these have been watered down into a Pam that means fcuk all (Enemy Forces). Of course there is a promise that NATO will update the Pam....obviously too busy in IZand AFG to get on with it

For those of us that don't remember the intricacies of GENFORCE Mobile Forces (the chosen enemy) I will remind you that any CA Bn has an Arty Bn and an AD Bn under command. Some of the questions that drop out of it are quite simple:

How does a Bn command 2 Bns?

How can we make Phase 2 trainees understand this?

Why are we as a Corps unable to grasp the nettle and rewrite this??

So what should we have as an enemy of choice?
 
#2
NuGenFor?

msr
 
#3
msr said:
NuGenFor?

msr
If this is like Neu Arbeit does that mean that the pamphlet would only have 3 pages of ORBATs and no warfighting doctrine because NuGenFor would be on Ops all the time?

Rhetorical question - I was thinking Blue there. Apologies - coat being collected now.
 
#4
I tell you what, if it ever gets out that GenFor was the same as Redfor we will all be in trouble! Good job old Putin isn;t interested in resurrecting the cold war: What;s that read the telegraph? nah can;t be true!!
 
#5
#6
subbsonic said:
Don't worry some contractors have been brought in to write TERRYFOR.
Otherwise suggest you simply revert tosomething that looks like this...
Which in my experience will be a load of retired Cols who will simply photocopy a GENFOR Pamphlet and charge £40,000 a week for doing so.

Also a TERRYFOR pam is not required - all pretty much of a muchness small groups, short-ranged weapons (less the odd MANPAD) - ambushes etc - unless of course GENFOR authors get a second go and we'll get two or three huge pamphlets with a large degree of to$$. But ffs will somebody in the Corps please consign the current iteration of GENFOR to history.
 
#7
combatintman said:
But ffs will somebody in the Corps please consign the current iteration of GENFOR to history.
Ok most will agree it is 5h1te, however I think you need to recognise that the teaching of military doctrine requires that you have something that represents enemy capability to train with.

It's all v well criticising, but I would think that a more constructive solution is required to put this naughty little puppy back in it's basket?
 
#8
how about teaching insurgent TTPs then? I would love to hear from anyone that thinks Terry doesn't have them.
 
#9
I remeber when GENFOR was being "developed"-my mucker-a name well respected in those parts said forget it and just use your remebered GSFG/WGF orbats as they were "close enough for government work".As indeed they were when finally bothered to look later on
 
#10
Have been doing quite a bit of work with genfor over the last week, so really glad this thread came up.

It's bollocks!
 
#11
Don't you go changing my posts!

If I say it's ballocks, it's ballocks - not balls

hehe
 
#12
subbsonic said:
combatintman said:
But ffs will somebody in the Corps please consign the current iteration of GENFOR to history.
Ok most will agree it is 5h1te, however I think you need to recognise that the teaching of military doctrine requires that you have something that represents enemy capability to train with.

It's all v well criticising, but I would think that a more constructive solution is required to put this naughty little puppy back in it's basket?
I agree a training vehicle is required which goes back to my original post - you'll probably struggle to find any real army in the world that has bns under the command of bns a la CA MR Bn and CA Tk Bn ergo it's a w@nk training tool.

As to criticism - these things aren't hard to write - I've written loads in my time.
 
#14
Whiskeybreath

You're right they have missed out the ZSU 57 X 2 in the Tank Regiment, you will probably need to let them have the slides as well.
 
#15
it's funny - when people like eye-spy and myself joined, the wall had just come down and people started thinking "why are we still using soviet forces as a learning model." so they invented GENFOR (eventually).

same discussion was had in subbsonic's time about Ze Germans, Glad's about the zulus, and when Rebel went through they all moaned about "why do we still have to learn how many trebuchets there are in one of Caesar's legions?" :D
 
#16
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
same discussion was had in subbsonic's time about Ze Germans, Glad's about the zulus, and when Rebel went through they all moaned about "why do we still have to learn how many trebuchets there are in one of Caesar's legions?" :D
Is that Legion Brittanicus or Legion Iberianus?
Garrison-duty scales or Expeditionary scales?


Templer 2207: why are we still learing about the Romulans??
 
#17
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
it's funny - when people like eye-spy and myself joined, the wall had just come down and people started thinking "why are we still using soviet forces as a learning model." so they invented GENFOR (eventually).

same discussion was had in subbsonic's time about Ze Germans, Glad's about the zulus, and when Rebel went through they all moaned about "why do we still have to learn how many trebuchets there are in one of Caesar's legions?" :D
Haha you keep it up with those ageist comments and I'll come round there and do you with me zimmer frame, you young rascal you.
 
#18
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
"why do we still have to learn how many trebuchets there are in one of Caesar's legions?" :D[/size]
none at all-they were all balistas-trebuchet is the steenking frenchies' version (alongside the smaller mangonel).

yeah, don't say it, I'm going....
 
#19
OK, this is going to take a while (by the way, I used to post under "Rose and Pose" but for password/logon/memory/alcohol reasons...anyway)

GenForce has been replaced. It is now, or very soon will be, called COE. Contempory Operating Environment. I won't go into masses of detail, but essentially this reflects the modern conflict area. A regular force, militia forces , non state actors, NGOs, the Media and other agencies that can act to our detriment as well as our benefit. It is part of the training process that we learn how to handle these agencies to our best outcome.

The Land Warfare Centre has full details of COE and I'm sure if you ask around Chicksands you will be able to get a copy of the Instruction that has all the relevant annexes.

Secondly, slack-bladder "GenForce is Sh(t" wallahs, name me one operating environment that doesn't have equipment that we train our soldiers to understand the capabilities of. Go on, never seen a BMP in Afghanistan? a T72 in Iraq, an AK varient in Northern Ireland or all of the above in Bosnia?

What's the main armament on a BMP1?. Range? That's right, a 73mm smooth bore cannon, range, between 1000 and 1300m, so when you have a patrol in Bosnia in 1995 asking you (as I did) what the effective range of the main armament on a BMP-1 is 'cos one is pointing at us right now, you'll frigging know. Won't you? Probably yes, you do know...why's that?

Finally, oh boo hoo, you don't like learning OrBats do you? What, a little like hard work to be able to commit to memory the capabilties of the most frequently used enemy/terrorist equipment is it? Guess what tw&ts, that's a large part of why were here, and if you don't have the personal discipline to learn aspects of your trade, you know, that bit about what the enemy capabilities are, that says more about you that it does any Opposing Forces (Enemy) Pam.
 
#20
ChickVonFlick said:
Secondly, slack-bladder "GenForce is Sh(t" wallahs, name me one operating environment that doesn't have equipment that we train our soldiers to understand the capabilities of. Go on, never seen a BMP in Afghanistan? a T72 in Iraq, an AK varient in Northern Ireland or all of the above in Bosnia?
Belize?

msr
 

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