General Dannatt makes speech about longer tour intervals

#1
According to BBC news webpage, General Dannatt has made a speech saying tour intervals need to be longer (30months), equipment improved and perhaps most importantly proposes a re-structuring of Brigades from 10 to 6 in order to achieve balance.

Interestingly one of the linked articles on the side reports the Defence Secretary saying that the UK would seriously consider any USA request for more troops for Afghanistan. Hard to see how this can be reconciled with the General's aspirations. Are they not speaking now that CGS is nearing his retirement in the Summer?

A further link on the page quotes Milliband as saying that reports of a further 2,000 UK troops being deployed are purely speculation. It reminds me of when John Reid was challenged after his "not a single shot" claim. He was asked in an interview whether reports of 4,500 troops going into Afghanistan were correct. He repeatedly said that such reports were wildly inaccurate, speculation and not figures he recognised. Of course he was telling the truth - we were planning on a deployment of 5,500.

Politicians - you know when they are lying because their lips are moving.
 
#3
chocolate_frog said:
Who are the 10 bdes?
Combat formations
1 Mechanised Brigade
4 Mechanised Brigade
7 Armoured Brigade
12 Mechanised Brigade
16 Air Assault Brigade
19 Light Brigade
20 Armoured Brigade
52 Infantry Brigade

plus the two logistics brigades attached to 1st and 3rd division
[edit]
 
#5
parapauk said:
chocolate_frog said:
Who are the 10 bdes?
Combat formations
1 Mechanised Brigade
4 Mechanised Brigade
7 Armoured Brigade
12 Mechanised Brigade
16 Air Assault Brigade
19 Light Brigade
20 Armoured Brigade
52 Infantry Brigade

plus the two logistics brigades attached to 1st and 3rd division
[edit]
Correctomundo - 101 & 102 Log Bdes, however 101 are currently re-roled as 11 Light Brigade.
 
#8
Cougar said:
parapauk said:
chocolate_frog said:
Who are the 10 bdes?
Combat formations
1 Mechanised Brigade
4 Mechanised Brigade
7 Armoured Brigade
12 Mechanised Brigade
16 Air Assault Brigade
19 Light Brigade
20 Armoured Brigade
52 Infantry Brigade

plus the two logistics brigades attached to 1st and 3rd division
[edit]
Correctomundo - 101 & 102 Log Bdes, however 101 are currently re-roled as 11 Light Brigade.
I left 11 out as it's only back for one six-month stint this year.
 
#9
Not too long ago General D made a speech, I believe at RUSI, in which he made the case for increasing the number of brigades now he states he wants there to be fewer but larger. How does he square this? :?

I'm also not so sure that 52 Inf Bde should be included in the list of ten deployable brigades; it lacks any integral Arty, Engr, Armour or CSS units and merely consists of three infantry battalions, and that's it. When it did deploy a year or so ago it had to cobble together units from other formations.
 
#10
Not too long ago General D made a speech, I believe at RUSI, in which he made the case for increasing the number of brigades now he states he wants there to be fewer but larger. How does he square this? Confused
The other thing is of course that he is going in six months time. Has he squared this off with his successor?
 
#11
micksmith said:
Not too long ago General D made a speech, I believe at RUSI, in which he made the case for increasing the number of brigades now he states he wants there to be fewer but larger. How does he square this? Confused
The other thing is of course that he is going in six months time. Has he squared this off with his successor?
One of many points on his Hand over/Take over notes..................
 
#12
The number of 'deployable' Bde HQs has increased under General Dannatt's tenure (albeit by two temporarily deployable formations 11 Bde and 52 Bde) for the simple reason that the existing number 8 (7 in the army, and 3 Cdo Bde) could not sustain the plot of 2 enduring missions. How will a reduction to 6 work?

SDR gave the forces 6 bde HQs (1, 4, 7, 12, 19 and 20) for enduring missions plus 3 CDO and 16 AA as contingency forces. And that was based on the planning assumption of 6 on, 24 off). A six month deployment with a 30 month interval requires a minimum of 7 brigades to sustain a single mission.

Let's just hope HMG doesn't decide to send the boys to more than one sand pit at a time.
 
#13
whitecity said:
The number of 'deployable' Bde HQs has increased under General Dannatt's tenure (albeit by two temporarily deployable formations 11 Bde and 52 Bde) for the simple reason that the existing number 8 (7 in the army, and 3 Cdo Bde) could not sustain the plot of 2 enduring missions. How will a reduction to 6 work?

SDR gave the forces 6 bde HQs (1, 4, 7, 12, 19 and 20) for enduring missions plus 3 CDO and 16 AA as contingency forces. And that was based on the planning assumption of 6 on, 24 off). A six month deployment with a 30 month interval requires a minimum of 7 brigades to sustain a single mission.

Let's just hope HMG doesn't decide to send the boys to more than one sand pit at a time.
You wrote that far more eloquently than I could!

Maybe that is CGS's point; reduce (return...) to 6 Bdes and tie the hands of future commanders so that the Army cannot be over-committed by the politicians?

Maybe not!

Litotes
 
#15
Litotes said:
whitecity said:
The number of 'deployable' Bde HQs has increased under General Dannatt's tenure (albeit by two temporarily deployable formations 11 Bde and 52 Bde) for the simple reason that the existing number 8 (7 in the army, and 3 Cdo Bde) could not sustain the plot of 2 enduring missions. How will a reduction to 6 work?

SDR gave the forces 6 bde HQs (1, 4, 7, 12, 19 and 20) for enduring missions plus 3 CDO and 16 AA as contingency forces. And that was based on the planning assumption of 6 on, 24 off). A six month deployment with a 30 month interval requires a minimum of 7 brigades to sustain a single mission.

Let's just hope HMG doesn't decide to send the boys to more than one sand pit at a time.
You wrote that far more eloquently than I could!

Maybe that is CGS's point; reduce (return...) to 6 Bdes and tie the hands of future commanders so that the Army cannot be over-committed by the politicians?

Maybe not!

Litotes
Which of course works brilliantly until there is an inescapable NEED for two long term deployments! :x

A suggestion best left well alone.
 
#16
I'm also tickled by this bit:
The general said he would reform the Army's fighting brigades into larger units that could be sent away less often.
All of the combat brigades have been 'squared' over the past 3 years, and many of them also count a FR Regt under command.

Just how BIG, does General Dannatt intend them to grow to now?
 
B

benjaminw1

Guest
#17
Torygraph

According to this

The new brigades will consist of a battalion of Challenger 2 tanks, one of armoured reconnaissance, an armoured infantry battalion in Warriors, a mechanised infantry battalion in Bulldog armoured vehicles and two "light role" infantry battalions.

These units would be deployed on operations for six months in every three years.
 
#18
Reading the article in the Mail it appears to be a watering down of the covenant. During the late 80's when a major review of family moral was conducted under the instructions of Mrs T it was agreed that the AF should work towards a 48 period between major tours and seperations. Thats when there were more assets to draw from.

This was to take into account courses, duties and pre-deployment training which was required which in itself resulted in extended periods of seperation.
 
#19
Shoddy reporting from the Torygraph (am I allowed to call them that anymore?). Regiment of Challengers shurely!?

Two balanced Divisions with an ability to pick and mix would seem to have some merits. Not sure where formed TA units fit into this equation though. Perhaps it is time to re-think the role of the TA and Reserves in this
 
#20
Herrumph said:
Shoddy reporting from the Torygraph (am I allowed to call them that anymore?). Regiment of Challengers shurely!?
Correct but thats a minor problem:

1. Where are they going to get them from?
2. Will they have the balls to deploy them when they have them. (See relevant thread in RAC forum if your interested.
 

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