Gen Nick Carter - a year in post as CGS. Give us a progress update?

[Border-Reiver]

MacArthur did ok though: 1 of 93

As I said there are those that were successful but not enough, I would suggest, to point to an obvious trend.

 

[jrwlynch]

MacArthur did ok though: 1 of 93

Not sure that the American Caesar, a.k.a. "Dugout Doug", who lost the Philippines and nearly lost Korea, is a good example of military success... outstanding politicking, perhaps, and very good at getting rich, but not the man to win your wars for you.

 

[Deleted 145301]

Not sure that the American Caesar, a.k.a. "Dugout Doug", who lost the Philippines and nearly lost Korea, is a good example of military success... outstanding politicking, perhaps, and very good at getting rich, but not the man to win your wars for you.

Dougout Doug?

As a Brigadier General during WW1 MacArthur was frequently in the front lines exposing himself to considerable personal risk. Did very well in the SWPA with far lesser resources than the European war.

He certainly lost the Philippines, but were many other Army commanders out front risking bullets?

Korea, indeed a mixed bag. Incheon, great success. Subsequent battles not so great

 

[bobthebuilder]

I'm not sure where you work but 'user interface' and 'dashboard' are the kind of terminology we see from men in cheap suits and gelled hair trying to sell is snake oil. They are dealt with accordingly. Sadly the Army seems to have bought some of the snake oil.

If it helps, I run my own business that develops, manufactures and sells products. I left the British Army post command ten years ago, held a senior business development role in a big contractor for a few years then worked for the biggest US commercial university program managing develoment and commissioning of new campuses. One thing I have never been is a consultant.

Dashboard isn't jargon; go into any organisation that actually collects data and monitors performance and switch on their computer and you will find a screen that presents data graphically. It's called a dashboard. Go down to Shabby Wood and you'll find everyone working on a project has a dashboard. By sneering at commonplace terminology, you simply demonstrate you ignorance.

Your prejudice explains why the MoD gets so little of value out of consultants. If you treat people with suspicion on the grounds that they gel their hair, then is it any wonder that they never deliver what is needed?

Some of the brightest people I have ever worked with, the people who bring the most powerful, innovative ideas and insights, the people who provide solutions, the people who inspire others and are genuine thought leaders, wouldn't be seen dead in anything but jeans and a T shirt. Even those who occasionally dress smart dont own a tie.

I suspect you would view them with distaste, barely pass the time of day let alone engage, then gravitate to the other superior buffoons in pink cords and tweed jackets to complain about the scruffy oiks in jeans.

 

[widow11]

If it helps, I run my own business that develops, manufactures and sells products. I left the British Army post command ten years ago, held a senior business development role in a big contractor for a few years then worked for the biggest US commercial university program managing develoment and commissioning of new campuses. One thing I have never been is a consultant.

Dashboard isn't jargon; go into any organisation that actually collects data and monitors performance and switch on their computer and you will find a screen that presents data graphically. It's called a dashboard. Go down to Shabby Wood and you'll find everyone working on a project has a dashboard. By sneering at commonplace terminology, you simply demonstrate you ignorance.

Your prejudice explains why the MoD gets so little of value out of consultants. If you treat people with suspicion on the grounds that they gel their hair, then is it any wonder that they never deliver what is needed?

Some of the brightest people I have ever worked with, the people who bring the most powerful, innovative ideas and insights, the people who provide solutions, the people who inspire others and are genuine thought leaders, wouldn't be seen dead in anything but jeans and a T shirt. Even those who occasionally dress smart dont own a tie.

I suspect you would view them with distaste, barely pass the time of day let alone engage, then gravitate to the other superior buffoon I'm pink cords and tweed jackets to complain about the scruffy oiks in jeans.

Fair one. I don't work for the MOD or anything connected to it though. Nor do I, or anyone I know wear pink cords or tweed jackets. You prejudices are just the same as mine.

 

[Kromeriz]

If it helps, I run my own business that develops, manufactures and sells products. I left the British Army post command ten years ago, held a senior business development role in a big contractor for a few years then worked for the biggest US commercial university program managing develoment and commissioning of new campuses. One thing I have never been is a consultant.

Dashboard isn't jargon; go into any organisation that actually collects data and monitors performance and switch on their computer and you will find a screen that presents data graphically. It's called a dashboard. Go down to Shabby Wood and you'll find everyone working on a project has a dashboard. By sneering at commonplace terminology, you simply demonstrate you ignorance.

Your prejudice explains why the MoD gets so little of value out of consultants. If you treat people with suspicion on the grounds that they gel their hair, then is it any wonder that they never deliver what is needed?

Some of the brightest people I have ever worked with, the people who bring the most powerful, innovative ideas and insights, the people who provide solutions, the people who inspire others and are genuine thought leaders, wouldn't be seen dead in anything but jeans and a T shirt. Even those who occasionally dress smart dont own a tie.

I suspect you would view them with distaste, barely pass the time of day let alone engage, then gravitate to the other superior buffoon I'm pink cords and tweed jackets to complain about the scruffy oiks in jeans.

Have a like.

 

[Caecilius]

It's reminded me (via Robert E Lee) that there's a very long, very strong correlation between attainment at West Point, and subsequent attainment in command, in peace and war.

The correlation between attainment at RMAS (Sword of Honour) and downstream - whether measured by mere promotion, or in operational command - is weak, to say the very least.

The two together seem to me to signify pretty clearly that there's a big disconnect between the Academy and the real Army

I don't think that's true, not least because you've used different metrics for each academy. For West Point you use high attainment, while for RMAS you use the sword of honour. That gives a much larger population from West Point than from RMAS. Note that Robert E Lee wasn't the top graduate from USMA so he's wouldn't count against your RMAS sword statistics.

There is indeed a much commented upon lack of Sword of Honour winners reaching high rank, but if you extend your population to JUOs rather than just the one top bloke then suddenly you get a much better correlation. This shouldn't really be a surprise; talented individuals tend to be talented in multiple areas.

That's before we consider that RMAS is a training academy for junior officers while USMA is a university with an OCS built in so you'd anticipate some differences in how success at each institution correlates with suitability for higher command.

Edit: While only a single year so a very small sample size, this article shows essentially zero correlation between class ranking and success. The bloke ranked 159/164 hit 1*. The class the stars fell on - Wikipedia

 

[Deleted 4886]

what is it about needing to wear a belt outside your smock, a belt over your jumper and then a belt around your trousers, all at the same time, that is so uniquely "Royal Signals"?

Fixed that for you!

 

[WindyDog]

There is indeed a much commented upon lack of Sword of Honour winners reaching high rank, but if you extend your population to JUOs rather than just the one top bloke then suddenly you get a much better correlation. This shouldn't really be a surprise; talented individuals tend to be talented in multiple areas.

Possibly because they are bright enough to leave. I can only speak for my intake, Sword of Honour left after only a few years. Top third of the Platoon, nearly all gone too.

 

[bobthebuilder]

I don't think that's true, not least because you've used different metrics for each academy......so you'd anticipate some differences in how success at each institution correlates with suitability for higher command.

Finishing position at neither is really a metric at all, just an indicator based on multiple weighted metrics and a good deal of subjective opinion. I suspect that the West Point result is based on rather more measured rigour than RMAS, which will be more subjective. This reflects that WP is a university rather than an officer training school.

As for Sword of Honour winners reaching senior rank, maybe the better question would be to look at where they were against the fast track career path when the left, not how far they got. I suspect many leave early, jumping into second careers at a point of their choice rather than the Army's. That is certainly true of the ones around my cohort.

The question then becomes "why can't the Army hold on to its best?".

 

[WindyDog]

Finishing position at neither is really a metric at all, just an indicator based on multiple weighted metrics and a good deal of subjective opinion. I suspect that the West Point result is based on rather more measured rigour than RMAS, which will be more subjective. This reflects that WP is a university rather than an officer training school.

As for Sword of Honour winners reaching senior rank, maybe the better question would be to look at where they were against the fast track career path when the left, not how far they got. I suspect many leave early, jumping into second careers at a point of their choice rather than the Army's. That is certainly true of the ones around my cohort.

The question then becomes "why can't the Army hold on to its best?".

I suspect you are right about West Point, and judging by more recent results in the Sandhurst Cup as a statistically insignificant, but reasonable comparison marker, others may be pointing in a better direction. Wonder what the Royal Military College of Canada put in their tea?

2016 - Royal Military College of Canada
2015 - Sandhurst Red
2014 - Sandhurst Blue
2013 - Sandhurst Blue
2012 - Royal Military College of Australia - Duntroon
2011 - USMA B-3
2010 - Sandhurst A
2009 - Royal Military College of Canada
2008 - Sandhurst Red
2007 - Royal Military College of Canada
2006 - Royal Military College of Canada
2005 - Royal Military College of Canada
2004 - Sandhurst Red
2003 - Sandhurst Blue
2002 - Sandhurst Red
2001 - Sandhurst Blue
2000 - Sandhurst 2
1999 - Sandhurst 1
1998 - Sandhurst 2
1997 - Sandhurst 1
1996 - Sandhurst 1
1995 - Sandhurst 1
1994 - Sandhurst 1

Out of my own sample pool of one, I believe my intake's SoH winner left due to frustration about many things, money was not one. What a cracking bloke for the Army to lose too.

"why can't the Army hold on to its best?". I would venture that remuneration was not a primary driver in the majority of cases too.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Out of my own sample pool of one, I believe my intake's SoH winner left due to frustration about many things, money was not one. What a cracking bloke for the Army to lose too.

My sample is only slightly bigger but, as an SGC graduate, itincludes Queens Medal winners. The Medal winner on my course made 1* and was on a stellar pathway. He left in utter frustration after commanding Herrick 1.....

 

[Caecilius]

m
As for Sword of Honour winners reaching senior rank, maybe the better question would be to look at where they were against the fast track career path when the left, not how far they got. I suspect many leave early, jumping into second careers at a point of their choice rather than the Army's. That is certainly true of the ones around my cohort.

The question then becomes "why can't the Army hold on to its best?".

I think that's probably true. My intake is comparatively recent to some on here. Probably about 50% have left so far across the intake. The Sword winner is doing very well, as is the Queen's medalist. Most of the JUOs are still going strong as well. I suspect that will change quickly once the reality of staff drudgery starts to bite.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Fair one. I don't work for the MOD or anything connected to it though. Nor do I, or anyone I know wear pink cords or tweed jackets. You prejudices are just the same as mine.

I was being slightly tongue in cheek, although the core point is not one of prejudice. More that the officer corps remains highly tribal and inward looking. Hardly surprising really.

I think we have been around the lack diversity in the officer cohort buoy enough on this and other threads.

 

[jim30]

If I have any contact with the MoD as a civilian, I need to shoot myself.

RN Weapons and Engineering bids are riddled with ex-Capt RN and Rear Admiral still using their rank and positions. It properly winds them up to call them by their first names...

I vividly recall a former and very recently retired RN 2* showing up to a meeting as a civvy business consultant for a large firm with a lot of business cards saying Rear Admiral RN (no retd) and insisted on bei g called admiral.

Denial isnt just a river in Egypt.

 

[BoundApprentice]

Hurts like a bastard when you get a 9mm simunition round in the arse.

It certainly helps teach the difference between 'cover from view' and 'cover from fire'.

I did some Training in Canada some years back it was a winter warfare exercise and the Canadian Rupert running the FISH phase of the exercise forgot that you are not supposed to use it below a certain temperature, the rounds were pretty frozen especially the one that hit one of the Canadian lads in the hand and exited his arm just below the shoulder(he was doing a wonderful job of pointing out where the rounds were coming from)that made that pretty realistic training

 

[Sarastro]

Targeted advertising algorithms getting quite advanced, it seems...