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Gaza kicking off - Flash BBC now

#3
Absolutely stupid, way to go for an own goal. :roll:
Yay no collusion over Jericho! - Did the British and the Americans really think the Palestinians were that stupid?
Hamas will no doubt be strengthened by this incident and every one in the Middle East will no doubt hate us more.
 
#4
"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has condemned the raid and said the US and UK warders were responsible for the prisoners' safety."

Huh?

US and UK personnel operating a prison in Gaza? And trying to or charged with responsibility for holding off an IDF lynching party?

How and on whose authority did we end up in this spot?
 
#5
Mr Saadat is normally guarded by British and US prison warders, in addition to Palestinian jailers, but they were withdrawn on Tuesday for what they described as security reasons.
Yeah, p!ssed of Israel's coming at them with bulldozers, attack helicopters etc!
 
#7
http://www.addameer.org/paprisoners/conditions.html and also
http://www.why-war.com/news/2002/06/04/american.html
give some background and contrasting views as to how effective this was. Seems Straw wrote to complain that agreements were not being kept and asked for guarantees. When these were not fulfilled, the monitors walked and Israelis pounced. TV shows that they are in the prison compound and are putting prisoners into trucks. Main prisoner is wanted by them for murder of a minister way back.
 
#8
castlereagh said:
Absolutely stupid, way to go for an own goal. :roll:
Yay no collusion over Jericho! - Did the British and the Americans really think the Palestinians were that stupid?
Hamas will no doubt be strengthened by this incident and every one in the Middle East will no doubt hate us more.
Either way, the arab press would have found some way to blame the west!

As ORC pointed out, the UK warders were withdrawn on principal, not to aid the isrealis (at least thats the FCO's story! :wink: )
 
#9
Not_Whistlin_Dixie said:
"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has condemned the raid and said the US and UK warders were responsible for the prisoners' safety."

Huh?

US and UK personnel operating a prison in Gaza? And trying to or charged with responsibility for holding off an IDF lynching party?

How and on whose authority did we end up in this spot?
In the beginning, the IDF killed Ali Mustafa the leader of the PFLP for terrorist bombings and shootings.
In response, the PFLP killed the extremist racist right wing minister Rehavam Ze'evi.
The Israelis went ballistic and went on the rampage in the West Bank - the PFLP fled to Arafat's compound - the Israelis surrounded it and threatened to blow every one up.
To stop the Israelis from killing the entire Fatah leadership - the Americans and British promised to guard the suspected Killers of Ze'evi in a prison in Jericho.
Saadat has not been tried if memory serves me correctly.

Now the Americans and the British in the Prison did allow the prisoners considerable freedoms (they were after all Prison officers) - so I don't understand the British and American concerns now over the laxity of the prison regime.

Forward to 2006
Hamas wins elections - promise to free Saadat and honour the Palestinian high court decision.
Britian and America know their position in Jericho is unfeasible. Especially after the PFLP and Hamas talks over a political alliance.
The Israeli PM is facing an election, has to look tough (Peres and Qana any one one?)
14/03/06 - The British and Americans decide that they cannot control the prison anymore: roll: - especially when it looks like Saadat will be released, what every Abbas says.
Riots break out in the occupied territories – support for Hamas grows thanks to the American and British actions.

If the Americans and the British thought that any violence would make Hamas look like they cound't control mob - they are mistakened. Everyone in the ME and even in the west are going to see this a set up job by the Americans, British and the Israelis which has gone badly wrong.

Hamas will be strengthened by this.
 
#10
Agent_Smith said:
castlereagh said:
Absolutely stupid, way to go for an own goal. :roll:
Yay no collusion over Jericho! - Did the British and the Americans really think the Palestinians were that stupid?
Hamas will no doubt be strengthened by this incident and every one in the Middle East will no doubt hate us more.
Either way, the arab press would have found some way to blame the west!

As ORC pointed out, the UK warders were withdrawn on principal, not to aid the isrealis (at least thats the FCO's story! :wink: )
Maybe the warders need heart treatment in Moscow? :wink:
 
#13
The British and US authorities have been complaining for several months about the safety of their wardens in the Jerico prison. On several occasions the US and UK have made representations to the Palistinain Authority about their fears for their staffs safety (by the sounds of it the orange jump suit issuers (AQ and friends) have been sniffing around the Brits and Americans). The US and UK wardens were unarmed and relied on the Palistinain Authority for their own personal protection (not something that I would like to rely on). It appears that they weren't happy with that protection and the US and UK governments complained but nothing was done. A final warning was issued on 8 Mar 06 in the form of a joint UK/US letter to the PA telling them to sort out the security or the wardens would walk. Nothing was forthcomming and so our guys got out this morning. Unfortunately the Isralis filled the vacuum rather than see Hamas release prisoners.

All in all not a pretty situation, but if I was a member of the US/UK observer staff at the jail and I felt that I was in danger I would have walked as well. I surmise that the individuals were not happy and the 2 governments had little choice. Unfortunately the Israelis have stepped into the breach and made the UK/US situation appear duplicitous.
 
#14
Really? I could have sworn that the complaints began when Hamas won the election. :roll:
The security forces are controlled by Fatah - the violence is such because Fatah is allowing it. If they clamp down on the people - they look like western stooges, while Hamas look like patriots. As I have said, the situation was coming to a head. Hamas had made it clear that it was their intention to release Sadaat (who has not be tried or convicted) in line with the Palestinian high court decision. Also from what I recall - the intention was only to release Sadaat.
The US and British knew that their detention of Sadaat was becoming more and more unfeasible but they were powerless really to do anything about it so they left. Whether they knew (Ha!) that the Israelis were planning to escalate the situation who know! But I know who I don't trust.
 
#15
Latest bit of news taken (in part only) from Ynet:-

Top detainees surrender

Jericho Drama ends: Six murders of former Tourism Minister Zeevi turn themselves in after nine-hour IDF siege; troops surrounded jail earlier Tuesday, three Palestinians killed in operation
Hanan Greenberg

Prison siege over: Popular Front Secretary General Ahmad Saadat and the five other terrorists involved in the murder of former Tourism Minister Rehavam Zeevi turned themselves in Tuesday evening following a nine-hour IDF siege.

Saadat and his men left the prison with their hands up and were handed over to IDF soldiers along with other detainees.

The IDF said Tuesday evening that about 60 prisoners remained in the prison, more than originally believed, including the murderers of former Tourism Minister Rehavam Zeevi, whose impending release prompted the IDF operation. The army said 202 detainees left the prison voluntarily and 76 of them were released following an interrogation after it turned out they were not terror activists.
 
#18
The last time they got pissed with the Brits if memory serves me right was around the time of the beginning of the Iraq war, when they desecrated the Commonwealth War Grave site in Gaza.
 
#19
I am so very old it is safe for me to say this knowing it would never happen but I would not mind going into battle alongside IDF. Right or wrong, they have the courage of their convictions and a almost frightening single purpose in their decisions. Suppose it comes from their knowing that they have only to lose one war and they are gone for ever? The speed at which they acted after we and Yanks walked out was amazing. Almost as if the decision was taken by a company commander without any ref higher up. The precautions they took with the SEP in making them strip down to jock straps indicate the hard line they adopt. That public stripping could well set off another batch of Arab aggro like the Danish cartoons.
 
#20
Arik said:
The last time they got pissed with the Brits if memory serves me right was around the time of the beginning of the Iraq war, when they desecrated the Commonwealth War Grave site in Gaza.
You going to say what the more extremists zionist do for after Sabbath kicks or shall I ? :roll:

But I do have say splendid show to Olmert, the Brits and Yanks! Only three fatalities and this much agro! Peres must be kicking himself.
So is Israel any safer? - Nope
Are Fatah and Abbas stonger or weaker - Weaker I would say. Hamas must be laughing!
Have the British and the Americans furthered their relations in the Middle East? - Nope
Are British citizens in more or less danger after this incident? - More danger , I would say

Splendid show again. :roll:
 

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