Future of the TA Infantry

#1
Frpm CGS's chat to the Defence Select Committee

Q328 Mr Jones: Can I turn to the Territorial Army. In Future Capabilities it states that "Both regular and reserve forces will be incorporated into the new structure, enabling the Army to improve the links between regular units and the reserves who reinforce them". Can you just explain what that incorporation of restructuring is going to do?

General Sir Mike Jackson: It takes them straight back to future infantry. When the last reorganisation of the Territorial Army was carried out in the infantry a rather difficult structure emerged whereby we had TA battalions which were not of themselves regiments but had within them companies cap badged from other regiments so you could have three different cap badges in the same battalion. There is no real sense of identity. I am Colonel of the Rifle Volunteers down in the South West, they had Devon and Dorsets, Hampshire, Berkshire, Wiltshire and Light Infantry, it just reinforces the last half an hour's discussion. I think I am the only serving general who has spent two and a half years as a training measure with the TA battalion of which I am inordinately proud. One of the real benefits amongst others of the new infantry structure is to completely reorganise the TA infantry so that the new large regiments have their own TA battalions cap badged within. This you find elsewhere, in the other half of the infantry which is already there. If you take the Light Infantry, for example, it is not a battalion, it is scattered companies in this slightly artificial battalion. We can do much more there. If I can give you an example, the ease by which reinforcements can be mobilised from a battalion of the same regiment, and I am thinking of the Royal Irish here - leave my own out of this one because it would be special pleading - last year for Iraq, 1 Royal Irish was immediately brought up to full strength by 65 - off the top of my head - of their own TA soldiers, out of a volunteer rate of 120, if I remember rightly, really good. That is much of what lies behind that statement but it goes broader than that, the more we can link together the TA and the regular army, in my view, the better it is. One army is a rather old fashioned phrase but I still believe it.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmdfence/uc1031-iii/uc103102.htm

If I'm reading this right it means that TA inf regts will now be 4 LI or 5 Scottish Regiment or such like with a single cap badge and the role of reinforcing it's own reg battalion
 
#2
Purple_Emperor said:
If I'm reading this right it means that TA inf regts will now be 4 LI or 5 Scottish Regiment or such like with a single cap badge and the role of reinforcing it's own reg battalion
In the main yes, but I would expect 5 LI to be reformed, were back to the TA of 1968.
 
#3
Sorry, that should be '6th battallion Scottish Regt' as there will be 5 reg battalions/regts.

So, just to start you lot baiting each other - what's the London Regt going to be called? :lol:
 
#5
I think you will find in December that DInf as already decided London Reg will still be called London Reg it is what the NEW RGJ Bn will be called that is the question? :twisted:

If any of you think to doubt the accuracy of this just watch this space in mid Dec.
 
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#7
Sack_them_all said:
I think you will find in December that DInf as already decided London Reg will still be called London Reg.
But to whom will they belong?
 
#8
Benjaminw1 said:
Sack_them_all said:
I think you will find in December that DInf as already decided London Reg will still be called London Reg.
But to whom will they belong?
Depends which company, but if you were to dig out a pre-OfC orbat, you might not be far wrong....
 
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#9
isleofwightrifles said:
Benjaminw1 said:
Sack_them_all said:
I think you will find in December that DInf as already decided London Reg will still be called London Reg.
But to whom will they belong?
Depends which company, but if you were to dig out a pre-OfC orbat, you might not be far wrong....
:? , moi? Coys revert to original regs, RRF, RGJ, PWRR etc, or Londons become TA Bn of say RRF?
 
#10
I'm not so sure.
I've heard it said by people earning far more than I do that the capbadges with a national footprint - RRF, LI for example, would be going down the 4 PARA route and having coys all over the shop. So for example LI Bn would be Cornwall, S Yorks, Durham, Shropshire (anywhere else? probably, I'm not LI). Given that, the RRF would be 'out' of a London Regt. On to speculation for this bit...It may be that there is no London Regt, and that the PWRR, RRF and RGJ coys join their 'oppos' outside the city, and that the London Irish turn into - I dunno - RLC? Worked/didn't work for 5 Royal Anglian......
The only thing that is sure is that it'll be a cake and arse party, minus cake because cake allocations will be ploughed back to Gordon Brown.
 
#12
Bearing in mind that the RRV have two Greenjacket companies, the Londons do too.. four RGJ companies within two existing Battalions and a new one to be created... does not take an Instructor pass on the IPB course to guess one possible future shape of such a Battalion....

Looks like Resistance may be futile...
 
#13
Guards TA? There's a thought. It'd have Col Mustard spluttering over his Telegraph and dropping snuff all over the floor. Are there enough chinless ruperts outside London to populate such a unit?
Sadly yes (I remember at CATAC in the 'round the table introduce yourselves please bit' one yeomanry capt introducing himself not as '2ic sqn' or as 'ops offr' etc but as 'the wines member'. Nuff said). :wink:
 
#14
stabtastic said:
Guards TA? There's a thought. It'd have Col Mustard spluttering over his Telegraph and dropping snuff all over the floor. Are there enough chinless ruperts outside London to populate such a unit?
Sadly yes (I remember at CATAC in the 'round the table introduce yourselves please bit' one yeomanry capt introducing himself not as '2ic sqn' or as 'ops offr' etc but as 'the wines member'. Nuff said). :wink:
Expansion of the Guards in the HAC?

The band of the HAC is already capbadged to the Brigade of Guards (Grenadier Guards). They have a platoon used to guard HAC Tac HQ.

I wonder what the TA Guards would be called? I assumed 6th Bn, and that the 3 incremental coys will be either disbanded, or the nucleus of a Guards Ceremonial Regiment.
 
#15
Wherever possible the model will be 3PWRR supporting 1 and 2PWRR. This has not yet been fully tested since the TELIC-brown-enveloping didn't reflect this informal arrangement and the blokes were otherwise engaged in Afghanistan but in the few cases where it did happen it was very successful, even during full on ball-busters like TELIC.

The London Regt is always going to be tricky. If the Guards need TA footprint (and why not) then the London Regt seems the obvious choice - its got the necessary English, Scottish and Irish make up, but not in enough mass to make it work. Divying up the Regt into 6 Scots Guards, 7 Coldstream Guards etc wouldn't work as these would only be of coy size and unable to sustain a regular bn's deployment. Assuming the Guards are never again going to be deployed en mess bowling up the road towards Arnhem, cravats flapping (God what a thought) then support to one bn at one time is more likly and a lose affliation may just be the way forward, with all the blokes wearing a token Blue Red Blue patch just to identify them as guards aligned (Like REME blokes in any bn). This would also give us the chance to have another boy-scout badge sewing fest that we now seem to like.

Whatever, the loss of the London Regt would be a great blow to the TA :wink: .
 
#16
It depends on the model the Foot Guards Regiment adopts, assuming it does bite the bullet.

Assumidly, the TA element will be 6th Battalion, The Foot Guards, and the 3 incremental companies will form a Guards Ceremonial Regiment, in the manner of the Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment. 6 FOOT GDS would assumidly be formed from the HAC with elements from the LONDONS.
 
#17
I seem to remember reading a proposed article about this a few months back,something like ta units recruiting areas would be Grenadiers for London/South,Coldstream's for the Midlands/North East,Irish for Liverpool/North West,strangly enough Welsh for Wales and Scots for the Scottish,I shall have a look and see if I can find the original,then again it might be on another part of this site.

http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/lists/ba2005.htm

Dont know how much relevance that has
 
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#18
isleofwightrifles said:
Expansion of the Guards in the HAC?

The band of the HAC is already capbadged to the Brigade of Guards (Grenadier Guards). They have a platoon used to guard HAC Tac HQ.
Well not quite, they are dressed and uniformed as Grenadiers, however with silver lace and no plume to the bearskin cap; this dates from William IV as far as I remember.

The cap badge is a silver grenade with HAC entwined on the ball.

Also you are mixing up the Musicians with the Drummers...... :wink:
 
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#19
Bloody hell. I'm away for 2 days and the future of the TA Inf is rewritten!

The Londons as a guards TA Bn? What would the world be coming to? Thank you, but no, 2 parades a year is more than enough shining, ironing and drill, anyway, I don't fancy the frontal lobotomy required to join a guards regt.

If there is to be a 2nd Bn, and my spies at RHQ haven't been able to find out more; then maybe it should be an RGJ Bn. They would of course be the 2nd (subordinate) Bn to the 1st :D

Looks like Resistance may be futile...
However, if the comments from the new Regt Scary Man are anything to go by, the Jackets may have a surprise coming........ :wink:
 
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error_unknown

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#20
isleofwightrifles said:
It depends on the model the Foot Guards Regiment adopts, assuming it does bite the bullet.

Assumidly, the TA element will be 6th Battalion, The Foot Guards, and the 3 incremental companies will form a Guards Ceremonial Regiment, in the manner of the Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment. 6 FOOT GDS would assumidly be formed from the HAC with elements from the LONDONS.
Mwahahahaha! :wink: :D
 

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