Future of the Queens Division

Discussion in 'Infantry' started by diehard57, Oct 29, 2005.

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  1. We’ve seen the recent mergers/amalgamations as a result of FIS, and the futures of the regiments of the Scottish, Kings, Prince of Wales’ and Light Divisions now seem to be decided. Although they haven't been touched this time round what about the regiments of the Queen’s Division – PWRR, RRF and Royal Anglians. Any thoughts on how a possible 'FIS2' would impact on these three? Could you see a merger of all three? Or one merged between the other two – if so which one? What would/could this/these new regiment(s) be called?
  2. At one stage there was talk of becoming the "England Regiment" - thankfully dropped when 2 RRF were saved at the last moment. I think they are missing a trick by not integrating more now - and will come to regret it when the next 4 battalions get cut in about 4/5 years time.
  3. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Sadly I think you are right, I was chatting with an ex Angle Iron today whilst beating and we discussed this. He was amazed when I explained the rifles thing and even that the D&D and M4 lads were the new 1 LI. We were trying to work out how such an amalgamation would work and what on earth it could be called. There seems to be little connection between the old Fuslier regts and London apartt from the old Royals and as such they are in the minority, at least anglia , hamps, surrey, kent and sussex are geographically close. Without some sort of Fusilier name they just wont want to know. The LI survived because the old county regiments had been Light Inf for over 100 years and traced their lineage back 300 years. There was an LI club with even HLI & O&BLI as members between the wars, which promoted LI drill. What will the Lancs and geordies think about being in a regt full of londoners and mockneys? It could be the end of the recruitment and cut the ties forever!
    Sad to see I'm afraid and if it is not dealt with now either by moving the northern budgie wearing monkies out now and settling them at home then come the next set of cuts the regt may go for ever!
    At least the D&D and RGBW are to be called that even if carrying LI at the end of their title. They will have a truncated passage through LI &Lt Div history before becoming Rifles!
    At least the regt will have a good westcountry jethro feel to it as opposed to feeling like a minority when I was in!
    2 choices then, amalgamate fully now or dissolve later and lose the thread of history that makes all recruits proud as well as the old and bold!
  4. Sad days though I can't imagine the large regiment not incorporating Fusilier in its title. Queen's Anglian Fusiliers sounds as bad as the RGBW. It will have to be something original to encapsulate the spirit of all those fine regiments though not favour any.
  5. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Surely Princess of Wales Anglian Fusiliers. But why name the Anglians in that manner, were the Fusliers Anglians? I suppose not!
  6. Ok call me crazy , but I see this......

    RRS with 5 bn.'s covering Scotland ( already done )
    RIFLES with 5 bn.'s covering the South West, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire, & London with outstations in Yorkshire, Durham, Shropshire & Herefordshire ( on it's way )
    KLBR & YORKS with a total of 5 bn.'s covering the North West and North East & perhaps amalgamating ( already done )
    R Anglians with 2 bn.'s amalgamating with the MERCIANS ( The Royal Anglian & Mercian Regiment ? ) with 3 bn.'s covering the Midlands & East Anglia
    PWRR & RRF amalgamating ( The Queen's Fusiliers ? we've seen the title before ! ) for a total of 4 bn.'s covering the South East & London with outstaions in Warwickshire, Lancashire, & Northumberland.
    R IRISH & R WELCH to remain seperate to keep line footprints in each area ( total of 3 bn.'s )
    GUARDS also remain, with 5 bn.'s

    Logically, to keep everything even, a bn. should be added to the Queen's Fusiliers but sadly I think if the above takes place these "large/large " regiments are going to go down to 4 bn.'s each anyway
  7. KLBR & YORKS eh? Hmm, why not Yorks and Lancs? The previous reg disbanded in '68 so no worries there....
  8. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    That I would like to see!
    The plan as the Lt Div seem to see it is to ensure that the new boys (sorry its nothing rude reallly) get to place their heritage in the pot before the 5th Bn goes and possibly takes them with it. All in all a fair arrangement. I too can only see a future where the Angle Irons leave the Fusliliers and PWRR to merge with the Mercs. Sad to see but probably necessary. Now for the Queens fussy buggers what badge, colour of beret and traditions etc?
  9. Sorry, but you'll have to think Euro-Regions when coming up with new names. the government is committed to aligning its organisation with same, and why would they miss a chance to knee more long-standing traditions in the gollies?.
  10. I think you are more likely to see the Fusiliers end up as the odd ones out and blistered onto someone else - after being cut by one Battalion.
    The Anglians and PWRR at least fit together (and have adjacent recruiting areas).

    Hence my comment that they should have seized the opportunity this time to be more radical - instead of just patting themselves on the back and waiting for the next salami slice.
  11. I think you'll find small/large will continue in the Queen's Division, as it will in the King's and Prince of Wales's.

    However, bear in mind that soldiers will crosspost in small/large Divisions...
  12. Any reason as to why the Fusiliers, who can recruit / retain according to DInf figures, would be 'cut'. Also, think you'll find that the Queens Div went through this pain in 1992/1993 in order to prepare itself for last year's eventualities.

    The question of 'losing' a cap-badge from the Queens Div only arose because of political cowardice in axing another Scot Div regt which couldn't recruit / retain its soldiers / unwilling to look at the Guards Div.

    And all of this at a time when arguably all of our operations suggest a greater need for boots on the ground! There is no logic.
  13. Agree with Whistleblower. PWRR and R ANGLIANS have much more in common than Mercian geographically and culturally. An amalgamated name would have to have "Royal" in there somewhere. Don't forget that it's a privelege to carry that title.
  14. i think the idea of having small and large regiments is a good one. For example, a large regiment of 5 bns eg RRS / YORKS would be on standby for a proper war (think falklands) and could set sail the next day in it's entirety, requiring no more Inf support.

    a smaller regiment ie. RRF with 2 bns, would be more suited to operational tours, ie Bosnia where thousands and thousands of soldiers arent really required.
  15. hmm, think you've missed the point a bit dev bloke. Not quite sure where you are coming from here. The new Regts will not be part of the same formations, ie 4, 7, 12, 19, 20 etc so will not be on the same FORM cycle. This was never the aim of large regiments, and under the divisional (ie formation as opposed to groups of Inf) system never will be.