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FTAO RTC Instructors/Staff

#1
Have you seen/adopted the new(already revised) CIC training progamme? and what impact is it having/going to have on your manpower?

Just to clarify this is the 9 w/e thing with us doing TAFS 1 & 2!
 
#2
Is this the one where the RTC don't do any fieldcraft outside of the basics on 1B5, and the Infantry guys instead spend three weekends on the range?

I actually think this is a better idea, although I was initially reluctant to give up the Inf training, it means that Catterick can concentrate on the fieldcraft, and we can take the time and effort to get the blokes through the APWT. The main reason for RTU's from catterick was apparently the high failure rate of the APWT. I would inagine that as professional as they are at the ITC they don't have the time to concentrate on getting a bloke through his test, whereas in three weekends we stand a better chance.

Doesn't matter greatly to us, as our CO, and the CO of 6 Rifles, have agreed that the Rifles should do the Inf trg weekends, wrongly in my opinion. I'm not sure they realise it's going to be all range work now though!

We start with the new Recruit Selection Day RSD (catchy) in feb, initially this will be run by the units RT staff from our location, with our guidance. Having the TAFS weekends, means we can spread the load of the SAA, and give the inst's a break, atm they get hammered with it, and this just results in poorer quality lessons. We've requested another 6 staff on top of the two we're already short!

All interested comers let me know.
 
#3
We have the same problem with regards to lack of man power, we always have had, but with us doing the TAFS1 & 2 we may get the unit RTT staff to tip in and help!
yeah right!
 
#4
This is the same one where we are expected to teach all skill at arms in the first two weekends. There will be a few sense of humour failures as the first weekends are the ones with the most troops and fewest qualified instructors, plus recruits will not be fully amenable to army disclipline so this could cause additional problems especially as some units do not provide any build up or continuation training on drill nights for recruits. For
 
#5
We went through a kinda staffing thing with it this w/e trying to figure out the quals required for each w/e HA like you say the most recruits genereally w/es 1& 2 SAAIs!! max 8 pax pre class yeah you did the maths too! we hten have the same prob with PTIs so leaning heavily on ETLs who could be teaching other subjects! As to transport.....
the only way to find out if it works is to run with it!
 
#7
Well, the lack of SAA Instr's is one certain problem then.

As someone who holds SAA Instr qualification, one severe bug bear of mine is the lack of training aids available.

If you're a MAPRIC, its easy, indent for some compasses and maps.

BCDT, again easy, bandages, asherman chest seal and a resusi-anne (however its spelt) and again you're laughing, same thing goes for CBRN.

But what have you got for SAA? Nowt. If you go on your course at Brecon you'll see the instructors there have stands for the weapon systems, plastic sight pictures, figure 12's, landscapes on movable screens, H83 containers (try to secure one of those after a range weekend, not a chance!) In short they've got all sorts. But, at SASC they've all made it themselves and have a friendly QMSI to help them get the difficult bits. I don't have the time and money to do the same, and every TA SAA period i've ever seen has suffered for it.

If RTC had access to nice training aids for SAA maybe more quals pers would volunteer themselves.

TB

[edited for fat finger syndrome]
 
#8
Yater, welcome to the wonderful world of Summer Challenge, we're also doing a short winter version too!

TB yeah our SAAIs had the same problems, photocopies & laminator went into overdrive for sight picture etc, Ammo containers weren't much of a problem FFEs and powder coated Training Blue(ish) with Cards showing the correct markings , one box per SAA
 
#9
I'm not A SAAI but do hope to be within the next year. A question if you may,

What more do you need to teach SAA other than a weapon system and some mini fig 11's? I'm sure that back in the days of SLR's that's all we ever used.

If I'm being obnoxiously thick then I do apologise.

Another question for FFbox, have you heard anything in the rumour that the training wing ran by a certain Major are to get the go ahead to run SAA courses? I heard the said Major mention it last year at DIVSAAM, but have heard nothing since.

I think it would be an exellent idea if only SASC would allow it.
 
#10
Off topic I know but - when I did my SAA course I realised things were a bit short kit wise so I made my own (as had most instructors on my course). Some pointers.....

Targets - Spoke nicely to range warden got some spare pre mounted on boards and even got some metal ones - nice chap. I also got a fig 11 on a screen (well the hessian) so all I had to do was unroll it when I wanted to do grouping and zeroing lecture!

Clear Sight Pictues - made my own by creating a template of six apiture pictures (drew around a plastic cup then added the rest inside the circle) on an A4 sheet then photocopied this onto acetate - cut into 6 and you have six clear sight pictures - job done.

Landscape picture - Cut out the small pictures in the Army publications catalogue (forget the number) and place them top middle and bottom then photocopied them hey presto an A4 sheet showing the three parts of a complete Landscape set! Tip make sure you have the matching landscape set!!

Iron Sight and Rear sight apiture set - mentioned what I wanted to do to said range warden - within an hour he had draw them out and cut them of of his board stuff - hey presto - Seperate Iron sight fore sight and rear sight apiture large size and on long handles to demo correct sight alignment using screen mentioned above- top bloke (oh I had to paint it black)

Weapon Stands - you can make one for a Rifle from two trip flare pickets and for the LSW you just need a piece of wood with a notch cut out the top to support the rear the front has legs already!

Pointer - Car Aerial - ask owners permission first! Dont bother with all that Laser crap the bateries die - never had a battery die in my car aerial pointer!

Table Cover DPM - User your basha - its free and works a treat!

Skill at Arms set of webbing - Ebay is a creat feature - I collected mine over time so that I had belt, ammos, waterbottle pouch and yoke. Or speak to teh G4 staff nicely! :)

When I was there they gave me a handout which basically said to be a good SAA inst you need to be a Magpie - I embraced this and it worked a treat. My advice think outside the box and expect nothing and use you loaf! Cost of all the above - bugger all! You got a mouth - if you want something ask for it.

Cheers

P.S Ammo Tim (H83) speak to the RQ tell him what you want it or and it should be no real drama for him to give you one as a training aid!

P.S.S PM me if you want copies of pictures - I run the teams now so dont get to use all this fun stuff anymore!
 
#11
Dev, yeah they only seem to be rumours, drop by in the new year may be able to do somthing for you.
he mentioned it to me but they haven't come to light.
 
#12
Baz44 said:
Off topic I know but - when I did my SAA course I realised things were a bit short kit wise so I made my own (as had most instructors on my course). Some pointers.....

Targets - Spoke nicely to range warden got some spare pre mounted on boards and even got some metal ones - nice chap. I also got a fig 11 on a screen (well the hessian) so all I had to do was unroll it when I wanted to do grouping and zeroing lecture!

Clear Sight Pictues - made my own by creating a template of six apiture pictures (drew around a plastic cup then added the rest inside the circle) on an A4 sheet then photocopied this onto acetate - cut into 6 and you have six clear sight pictures - job done.

Landscape picture - Cut out the small pictures in the Army publications catalogue (forget the number) and place them top middle and bottom then photocopied them hey presto an A4 sheet showing the three parts of a complete Landscape set! Tip make sure you have the matching landscape set!!

Iron Sight and Rear sight apiture set - mentioned what I wanted to do to said range warden - within an hour he had draw them out and cut them of of his board stuff - hey presto - Seperate Iron sight fore sight and rear sight apiture large size and on long handles to demo correct sight alignment using screen mentioned above- top bloke (oh I had to paint it black)

Weapon Stands - you can make one for a Rifle from two trip flare pickets and for the LSW you just need a piece of wood with a notch cut out the top to support the rear the front has legs already!

Pointer - Car Aerial - ask owners permission first! Dont bother with all that Laser crap the bateries die - never had a battery die in my car aerial pointer!

Table Cover DPM - User your basha - its free and works a treat!

Skill at Arms set of webbing - Ebay is a creat feature - I collected mine over time so that I had belt, ammos, waterbottle pouch and yoke. Or speak to teh G4 staff nicely! :)

When I was there they gave me a handout which basically said to be a good SAA inst you need to be a Magpie - I embraced this and it worked a treat. My advice think outside the box and expect nothing and use you loaf! Cost of all the above - bugger all! You got a mouth - if you want something ask for it.

Cheers

P.S Ammo Tim (H83) speak to the RQ tell him what you want it or and it should be no real drama for him to give you one as a training aid!

P.S.S PM me if you want copies of pictures - I run the teams now so dont get to use all this fun stuff anymore!
Baz,

Any chance of sticking your trg aids on a wiki page?

msr
P.S. SAA set of webbing - why can't the army get over this one?
 
#13
msr said:
P.S. SAA set of webbing - why can't the army get over this one?
Ah tell me about it, I had a blazing argument with a WO2 over this (necky? me?!), I said it was a daft idea, to make the blokes wear their webbing stripped down, it takes time and practice to get it right, and comfortable, and what better place to get advice and experience than the RTC's.
He outranked me, he won.
So they now waddle around with belt, yoke, 1xammo pouch and 1xwater bottle pouch.

As for the training program, the OC, CSM and PSI made the decision to try and spread the SAA lessons out over more than two weekends to try and save on Instructor melt down.
As for PTI's we've leant towards having a dedicated PTI who has all the time to prep lessons, and then run them with assistance from the other PTI's in the Pl's. ETL's are only any good for endurance training, no use at all for gym agility, circuits, sports, swim test etc.
 
#14
With regard to training aids some instructors have their own while others have to beg steal and borrow bits of kit. The rtc provide three saa boxes with some training aids, but considering there are usually more than 3 instructors this can cause a problem. My other concern is space especially as the classrooms are not the ideal size. Visiting instructors often do not know what they will be teaching until about 11.30 pm the night before and will often be fastballed to take other intakes for a lesson. I do not like the idea of doing the same lesson back to back but its a necessity to get the numbers through and by some reason we always manage to achieve our aim.
 
#15
But that's it isn't it? It always seems to be a botched job, there's never enough staff, so three people do the work of six. You cut corners' and rush things through. Hopefully the blokes don't see it, but the team know that it's poor quality instruction. We, as all, take any capbadge, but geography dictates that the recruits are either Rifles (Inf), Yeomanry, Signals, RAMC, RLC or RA.
Yet in turns of permanent instructors, from the OC down there are 10 x rifles (inc OC, 2i/c, CSM and CQMS), 2 x Yeomanry, 1 x signals. Pretty shite really, end's up neing fast ball central on friday night, I go in now and ask the CSM what's changed this weekend! Unit's are quite happy for us to take the burden of recruit training from them, but not willing to send any staff.
But like FFBox, we're hoping to get the RRTT staff to help with RSD and TAFS.
 
#16
OTB Agreed as there is inconsistency in subject matter taught by some instructors particularly ad hoc visiting ones ie magazine filling does not seem to be practiced just mentioned in passing, teaching incorrect drills etc
The rtc's seem to rely on parent units providing continuation training on drill nights which seldom happens except with the infantry units and this is evident as there is a clear gap in standards.
 
#17
Should be even more fun when RTC are required to conduct not only 1A and 1B but also 1C when ATR stop taking TA!

We dont have too much of a problem with instructors with 2 x RA offrs, 2 x Inf, 1 x RA, 1 x Yeomanry, 1 x REME, 1 x Inf,RE,RLC (he can't make his mind up he he) 4 x RSigs. 4 x RE as instructors. Trg aids aren't a problem either we have a great permanent staff team who will endevor to get everything we need.

RSD is being conducted by RTC staff and starts in Jan, after a very successful run through in Dec.
 
#19
Way too simplistic.
Also the amount of paperwork is increasing, we now validate ourselves after every lesson, the recriuits validate every w/e, we get assessed one lesson per w/e, then there's the reports........the pink fluffy V&S reports the final w/e reports the Infs COs effiencty(?) form, the subject taught log.... or is that just us?
 
#20
We don't get involved in any of that. Just reports, certificates, then usual paperwork generated by any normal weekend; AFB159, 1033, first/last parade etc etc.
As soon as the recruits are fell out, staff generally bomb burst (as long as all is done, we don't leave anyone in the shit - well apart from the CQMS, but he just needs toorganise his life better!!)
 
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