Frontline troops may cover for fire strikers

#1
Frontline troops may cover for fire strikers
Andrew Porter, Deputy Political Editor



MILITARY chiefs are drawing up plans to recall troops from frontline postings in Afghanistan and the Balkans to provide cover for the planned strike by firefighters this summer.
Although forces in Iraq would not be involved in operating the army’s Green Goddess fire engines in Britain, some troops in training for the Gulf or already deployed elsewhere may be recalled in the struggle to provide the 11,000 emergency crew members that will be needed.



All leave for the armed forces is likely to be cancelled as personnel are drawn in from the army, navy and air force.

Ministers and military chiefs are irritated that at a time when British forces are stretched on numerous duties from Northern Ireland to the Middle East, service personnel will have to leave their postings to be trained to tackle fires and other service duties.

At the same time the armed forces are bracing themselves for an estimated 10,000 job losses from the latest round of defence cuts.

A senior military source said: “With the way it stands at the moment, we can see us being told to bring some people back from abroad. The details are in the early stages but it is clear which (troops) could conceivably be called upon.”

The Fire Brigades Union (FBU) might strike as early as next month. The union, which last month decided to break off its affiliation with the Labour party, has signalled its determination to push ahead with industrial action.

It says local authorities have reneged on agreements of pay rises that were concluded to settle the last round of strikes in 2002. The FBU is demanding the immediate payment of a 3.5% pay increase from local authority employers which they say was due last November. They also want a further 4.2% from the beginning of this month which they say is part of the deal struck last year.

At the union’s conference last month Mike Fordham, assistant general secretary, accused the employers of “theft” and said members of the government were trying “to smash the union”.

The strike will put further pressure on Gordon Brown, the chancellor, who is facing strong lobbying from the Ministry of Defence for a budget increase when he announces the results of the comprehensive spending review next week.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1167716,00.html
 
#2
There's something to look forward to, then. Perhaps the Trumptonites might like to volunteer to subsequently replace some of the "Feet", a sort of "Quid-pro-quo" arrangement? On second thoughts, probably not! :?
 
#3
Or perhaps...if they don't like the pay they receive...hows about fcuking leaving the job instead of striking and expecting others to do it for you.

How much money do you want for getting cats down trees?!
 
#4
Moodybitch said:
Or perhaps...if they don't like the pay they receive...hows about fcuking leaving the job instead of striking and expecting others to do it for you.

How much money do you want for getting cats down trees?!
Well said MB, as if we are not over streached as it is at the moment
 
#5
One of the reasons that Trumpton is so quick to strike is that they know the government will use the military to provide cover.

How about the politicians actually being honest, and admitting that their consistent failure to properly fund defence has resulted in undermanning and overstretch, so the military will not be deployed to provide firefighting cover; Trumpton may think more carefully. They lost a massive amount of public support last time - with no cover - or an alternative provided by say, local councils, it would evaporate completely.
 
#6
The French have the right idea. All emergency workers are liable for mobilisation as part of their contract. Pierre Le Trumpton goes on strike and the French Govt mobilise the lot of them. They find themselves doing the same job only on military pay (conscript pay at that) 200 miles from their usual station and under military terms and conditions. Result Pierre etc have very little appetite for striking.
 
#7
The only good thing to come of another strike will be the complete breaking of the FBU. This government (tossers that they are) will not stand for more industrial action. The new fire and rescue service bill has certain clauses in it that allow them to take over the fire service and run it (or chunks of it) centrally.

If they strike again the bill will become law very quickly!! :twisted:
 
#8
'The only good thing to come of another strike will be the complete breaking of the FBU. This government (tossers that they are) will not stand for more industrial action. The new fire and rescue service bill has certain clauses in it that allow them to take over the fire service and run it (or chunks of it) centrally.

If they strike again the bill will become law very quickly!! '




Right up to the point where 'Uncle Tony' signs the European Constitution and gives everyone, including the police and the Armed Forces the right to strike. Doh!!! Well maybe that is the only way that w4nker wont sign it!!!


Funny thing is I know of about 15 London Fire Brigade lads who are currantly in Iraq or who have just been called up for Iraq. Big circle, what goes around comes around. So, dont give them Warrior, give em a 432 or, er, a Humber Pig and tell them to crack on.

Also, alot of lads have left the FBU. Hmmmm, wonder why? Mostly the leavers are ex-forces. Funny that.

Any volenteer's to of Op Fresco instead of TELIC?????
 
#9
God some of you make me laugh.Nearly 40 % of the Fire Service is now ex-services.They fought in the Falklands,First Gulf War,Bosnia,Kosova,toured Norther Ireland just like some of you.Let us hope when you hit civvy street you won't get slagged of by people in the services.
As some of you might actually know the Government signed a deal called the Heads of Agreement in June 2003.They agreed to pay the 4% that was due for a year right away followed by 7%in November 2003 and 4.2% in July 2004 which would put a firefighter who is fully qualified after 5 years service on £25,000.That is what they promised and that is what they signed.They decided at the last minute in November to only pay us 3.5% instead of the 7% promised.Eight months later we still await the 3.5% from November and they have told us the 4.2% due now will not be paid until the new year.They are attacking every condition of service we have and have broken the agreement that was signed.
Now think back to the strike.We got on very well with the service lads who were on fire duty.They visited our stations to use the gym and we had no problems.We had mobile phones and on every occassion a life was at risk,be it a road traffic accident,fire etc we were out the doors and on many occassions overtook the Green Godesses en route.Your guys were extremely pleased to see us because believe it or not they did not have much training and did not want to be there.
We do have the right to strike unlike the military and the police and I can assure you that this decision will not be taken lightly but once again Tony Blair and Co. have lied and we are boxed in to a corner.
The military will be the best thing since sliced bread again if we do strike but you and I both know Tony Blair is screwing you lot as much as anybody else.But be warned -this time will be different.Many Fire Crews will not be on picket lines this time.No mobile phones,no free fire service.They will go home on strike days and I am afraid you will be on your own this time.The time for public opinion is gone my friends.We want what was agreed.We are now thinking of ourselves and our families.
Somebody asked why don't I **** of and get another job.I could my man as I am an electrician and earn far more money, but I love being a firefighter.Have done for 22 years.Not only fires RTA'S but all the rest we do-community training,fire safety inspections,special rescues,school visits,and it goes on.All I want is what was promised.After 22 years service my take home salary is £1189 per month nearly £250 a month less than my wife who is a nurse.
As for many have left the FBU and they are all service personnel-WHAT A LOAD OF SHITE.Don't know who has been feeding you your information but I will give you the true figures.We had 54,000 members before the last dispute.Many of our members(15,000 are retained.They are like your TA.
We have 51,480 now who are about to be balloted.We have 13,500 retained members so as you can see out of the 2500 who left nearly 1500 are retained.That leaves 1000 approx. full time that have left and I can tell you of the 25 in my brigade who left you are lucky if 3 are ex-services.

By all means now slag us off but at least publish facts and not shite.
 
#10
OK - here's a slagging off.

The first time that somebody dies as a result of the FBU being on strike, your 'leader' should be prosecuted for manslaughter.

I agree, you should be paid well for what you do - god know's it wouldn't suit me as a career choice. But, you chose to do the job - so do it! Don't put innocent peoples lives at risk. If you're an ex-squaddie, you've spent your life protecting people so don't blow it all now.
 
#11
Big Boy,

this site has had a few changes in it times, but I think the old threads are still lerking around in it's arcives. If you do a search on the threads that were posted during the strike you will find that I am a serving Fire fighter in London, and unfortunatly all that I have said is true. I personnaly know them. The reasons why they left are numerous, some didnt like the politics of the union, some thought we were sold out by the Executive Council, some thought we should not have gone on strike in the first place.

For my part, I am still in the union, because I feel if used correctly it can and does to alot for the members.

I joined the Army at 16 and served my country in various theaters, and now I have left, I still serve my country and my comunity by being a fire fighter (Sub Officer) and am proud of it.

If you look at my post the first part is a quote from someone earlier on. I then go on to be argumentative by saying that we will then get the right to strike back shortly if they do take it from us.

The part about the LFB lads in Iraq is true, I was almost one of them but a slight injury meant that I was not called up....this time.

Just a sugestion, alot of the guys on here are squaddies or ex-squaddies and like to have a pop. Dont rise to it mate. They believe what they believe and nothing will change it until one day when they are in a house that is on fire and we turn up to save them and thier families. All during the last strike we tried, myself and a few others that were ex services or had family in the services.

What the Govt is doing is despicable, but lets face it mate, we were screwed and sold out by the EC so the Govt now sees us as spent and will do to us as they are doing to the MoD, screwing them royaly!
 
#14
Yes, alot of people here are squaddies or ex squaddies who do like a bit of bantor, but i believe this thread is not about winding up the fire service. This is a very serious issue that needs to be sorted. I agree (like most probably) that the fire service does a very good job for a small wage, I dont agree they should be allowed to strike it is irresponsible and dangerous and costs lives, they are an EMERGENCY service paid to save lives and should not mess about with that responsibility. When the Fire Fighters strike the Military has to take over we get 2 weeks training for a job firefighters train months for, we are then taken away from essential duties to do another dangerous job with equipment that is outdated because we are not allowed to use the Fire engines or equipment the fighters use.


Yes they do a dangerous job yes they get a low wage

NEWS FLASH we do a dangerous job for an ever lower wage you dont see us striking do you? Or maybe we should then we could give you hose pipe jockeys 2 weeks combat training and send you to Iraq!!!!


:evil: :evil:
 
#15
Although forces in Iraq would not be involved in operating the army’s Green Goddess fire engines in Britain, some troops in training for the Gulf or already deployed elsewhere may be recalled in the struggle to provide the 11,000 emergency crew members that will be needed.
[....]

At the same time the armed forces are bracing themselves for an estimated 10,000 job losses from the latest round of defence cuts.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1167716,00.html[/quote]

Surely the solution here is to do to the FireFighters what Ronald Reagan did to the Ar Traffic Controllers in the early 1980s - Sack the lot. Only this time, they can be replaced by the soldiers from the latest roundof defence cuts.

msr
 
#16
IBRU said:
Yes they do a dangerous job yes they get a low wage

NEWS FLASH we do a dangerous job for an ever lower wage you dont see us striking do you? Or maybe we should then we could give you hose pipe jockeys 2 weeks combat training and send you to Iraq!!!!


:evil: :evil:
yes they do do a dangerous job, but by striking they are cutting off the ability to grow, they are talking about cuts and how it effects them, then saying each of us would like a bigger slice of the budget pie.

where does the cash to prevent cuts then come from in an over stretched budget?

you can't have both on a fixed amount, it's either more pay or less cuts.....

BBC
 
#17
It is all well and good talking aboutGovt renaging on deals. Have you delivered your bit?
Why no trg on night shift?

It is also pretty disengenuous to quote a basic salary when you get hods of overtime.

And lets face it when we are overstretched anyway and you fatherless people decide to strike putting us at risk then you can hardly blame us for getting shirty!!!
 
#18
Nope sorry once again I don't know where you get your information.Since 1977 the FBU did not allow overtime which in turn meant the fire service had to recruit people instead of relying on overtime to a lot less people.That is something I am proud of as it meant more people (like ex-services got a job).We have lifted that overtime ban as part of the June 2003 agreement but as yet very few brigades are at the stage that they can offer overtime.My own Brigade will not be using overtime as my Chief Officer refuses to pay people off and distribute their money amongst everone left as overtime.
Take them to court shouts one person.I would love to get him in court but that just is not going to happen.The leadership of our union have****ed up on many occassions.Many do not trust them.All we want is what we were promised.I ask you not to slag us of as A/Many are ex-squaddies and B/Most of us would support you to the hilt if we could.You all do a great job for little pay and Tony and Geoff are out to destroy you as much as us.
The problem also with this deal was that it is self-financing and when nearly 82%of the fire service budget is taken up with salaries and pensions it does not take a genius to work out what has to happen to pay for the deal.Already we are seeing appliances and stations being downgraded during the night because the Government say there are less fires during the night.NEARLY ALL SERIOUS FIRES AND DEATHS OCCUR DURING THE NIGHT.You and your family will wait longer on an appliance during the night which does not need me to tell you what that could mean.When you have a house well alight at 3 in the morning with kids trapped you need as many fire crews in BA swamping that house to get them out.YOU DON'T NEED LESS.

As for nightshift training.Nightshifts start at 6pm and finish at 9 am in the morning.Crews train for two hours on nights then other station maintenance and inspections of premises take place.This is done up to 12.Between the hours of 12-7 nationally is known as Stand-down.In between those hours a fire-fighter is free to do what he wants in a fire station as long as he is ready to answer an emergency call when it comes in.Some fire fighters sit up all night,some carry out paperwork,some study for their promotion exams,some watch a DVD and yes there are beds where some sleep and some lie on top of their bed and read a book.My last nightshift saw eight calls between 12-7 which is about average.Three of these were to houses with one being a serious fire.As you can see you are in and out like a yo-yo and if people think you get a great night sleep in a fire station with a hot water bottle-sorry but you are just plain wrong.
The national employers want to remove this stand down period as they want to change the shift system even although many police forces have moved to the 2-2-3 system.But the agreement they signed states that if existing duty systems remain they will be unchanged.If they want to bring in new duty systems they must have good reason and show that the new system is better than the one they are replacing.AND THAT IS WHERE THEY****ed UP.The FBU are outsmarting them at every turn on this one,so what do they do,they move out with the Agreement and say we are changing the existing duty system because they cannot change them through reasoned argument.And if we are not happy-tough.Well they have done this once to often and yes it is tough,tough for them because fire-crews ain't going to stand for their lies any more.
I hear you lot are also going to get screwed by Tony and his crew but you cannot strike.Well that does not apply to us and we are not going to sit back and take it any more.The dispute ended because we were going to war and many fire-fighters stated the would not strike during a war.Well that war is passed and Tony lied.He will lie about almost anything and I don't know what you do about them screwing you but I know what I WILL BE DOING
 
#19
The Strike did not end because of the war do not dilude yourselves, the strike ended because you lost all public support because of the upcomming war so dont try and make the FBU look honourable in their actions as they had little choice without public support they didnt have a leg to stand on. :x
 

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