Friday Night in A&E.

Let me see, the biggest benefit fraudsters are the self-employed, closely followed in second place by landlords. Of late, employers have been racing up the Top Ten Fraud Charts with furlough scams. The amounts of money stolen by those three groups singlularly and combinbed dwarfs any amounts nicked by individuals.
But, why don't we see more prosecutions, you may ask. And you'd be right but to proscecute the true guilty parties would blow apart the welfare stories pedalled by politicians; plus most of the local courts have been closed and the argument is that it's not in the public interest and prosecutions cost money.... and putting in the public domain details of just how easy it is to defraud Universal Credit of a minimum of a grand without even trying through the wonderful all singing dancing UC computer system so lovingly offshored by Osborne that doesn't work and is riddled with software back doors inserted by those fantastic four chappies and chapesss of the former Jewel of the Empire for the price of one Brit coder -- much cheapness Sahib, much VFM. Fcek me, the politicans might actually have to sack the very senior CS that dreamt this up and couldn't give a sh1t about sorting it until their pensions are locked in.

When people label National Insurance benefits that they've paid for all their working lives as welfare that's pure Daily Fail and Daily Torygraph bigotry writ large. Life long Conservative voter that I am and it astonishes me how cnuts like Osborne's lies are swallowed. As I said above, the largest amounts of benefits are fraudently claim by the self-employed and landlords but you won't see that ever printed in certain newspapers ever.

You'll get no argument from me as ist verbotten to be a Tory who sticks up for what's left of the safety net for the native born working class. Bring back the Boards of Guardians and sellng children or exporting them to what's left of the colonies. That'll sort it.

Edit for crap typing
I’m sorry that your panties are in a bit of a bunch, let others defraud the system it’s not your problem, take a deep breath and relax. The legal arm of the government grinds very slowly but it will catch up with them, God’s punishment is slower still but in the the end just rewards will be received.
Pouring hot coals on your own head is just punishing yourself and those around you.
 

holyphuc

Old-Salt
Let me see, the biggest benefit fraudsters are the self-employed, closely followed in second place by landlords. Of late, employers have been racing up the Top Ten Fraud Charts with furlough scams. The amounts of money stolen by those three groups singlularly and combinbed dwarfs any amounts nicked by individuals.
But, why don't we see more prosecutions, you may ask. And you'd be right but to proscecute the true guilty parties would blow apart the welfare stories pedalled by politicians; plus most of the local courts have been closed and the argument is that it's not in the public interest and prosecutions cost money.... and putting in the public domain details of just how easy it is to defraud Universal Credit of a minimum of a grand without even trying through the wonderful all singing dancing UC computer system so lovingly offshored by Osborne that doesn't work and is riddled with software back doors inserted by those fantastic four chappies and chapesss of the former Jewel of the Empire for the price of one Brit coder -- much cheapness Sahib, much VFM. Fcek me, the politicans might actually have to sack the very senior CS that dreamt this up and couldn't give a sh1t about sorting it until their pensions are locked in.

When people label National Insurance benefits that they've paid for all their working lives as welfare that's pure Daily Fail and Daily Torygraph bigotry writ large. Life long Conservative voter that I am and it astonishes me how cnuts like Osborne's lies are swallowed. As I said above, the largest amounts of benefits are fraudently claim by the self-employed and landlords but you won't see that ever printed in certain newspapers ever.

You'll get no argument from me as ist verbotten to be a Tory who sticks up for what's left of the safety net for the native born working class. Bring back the Boards of Guardians and sellng children or exporting them to what's left of the colonies. That'll sort it.

Edit for crap typing
I'm a landlord can you tell me what i can claim for as I seem to be missing out
 
I'm a landlord can you tell me what i can claim for as I seem to be missing out
Try the Welfare / Benefits Office here:

03502F2B-5C52-4B1C-B3CA-1E15065F2ED7.jpeg
 

Polyester

War Hero
They’re the ones working to pat for the socialist hand outs.
Aye. I suspected as much.

It never ceases to surprise to me how an average guy who go's out to work, pays his taxes and lives a normal life is the bad guy in our bright and brilliant modern world where everyone is equal.

Some of the most honest (and definitely most hard working people) I know are self employed. So I disagree with HCL entirely.
 
I’d gladly pay an extra 2p in the £1 for better prisons, nut houses and drug treatment / police as well as another 1p in the £1 for increase in defence spending, so in other words, about £2000 a year, and that’s just me!
Especially now , when there is nothing else we can spend it on !
Make it an invisible tax , by putting up the prices of the Daily Mail , Daily Express and Telegraph to pay for it
 

Yokel

LE
Especially now , when there is nothing else we can spend it on !
Make it an invisible tax , by putting up the prices of the Daily Mail , Daily Express and Telegraph to pay for it

Why not the Guardian?

After all if a lefty with a beard and man bun, who can pay £7 for a bowl of Venezuelan socialist muesli and £5 for a Crappofrappolatte with Soy milk....

After all the liberal lefty no hoper better not types are largely responsible for the state of society.
 
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Clearly reading between my lines escapes you. Here's it in plain: the largest groups of people who consistently defraud the benefits system fit the profile of Conservative supporters, the very same people who persistently demonise the unemployed who draw on that benefit system. Sorry if that doesn't seem to fit your biased and Daily Hate inspired narrative about the feckless and workshy.
BTW I don't work in a JCP. My job's a bit more specialised than that.
And It's not welfare. It's benefits. And by 2023 all benefits are slated to be under UC - - which is also not called welfare. I spell: B-E-N-E-F-I-T-(S) and it's not pronounced welfare because it's not welfare because benefits are largely contribution based, welfare isn't

HTH
I think you are confusing Cameron supporters with those well-known contributors to the public purse Mandleson (lied about a home loan from Geoffrey Robinson, creamed the expenses system 3 weeks before stepping down, tax free uber-salary from the EU, loads of Russian Oligarch mates), his forner "advisor" Derek Draper (you know, now married to Kate Garroway and in a hospital with long covid) who made a fortune out of cash for lobbying access claiming he wanted to stuff his bank account at £250 an hour, BLiar (huge cash influxes from despots the world over, non-job in the ME, property portfolios in his kids' names to avoid tax arranged by his wife's mate's conman boyfriend, Eccleston'e campiagn contributions), David Milliband (£30K expenses on his constituency home just before hoofing as an MP, mega-salaried posts in the US where they have a more lenient tax regime).

Socialism - taking from each according to their ability, giving to those according to need ;)
 

windswept398

War Hero
Dit from my paramedic cousin.

Picture the scene, a place called Knowsley that includes the worst bits of Huyton, Prescot, Halewood and Kirkby.

A shout goes that there is a 999 for an O/D, First Responders are on the way as are Police (it's one of those areas). Ambulance gets there to find 1x male unconscious in a pool of vomit in the living room. He stinks of alcohol and has a scalp would bleeding profusely. First responder is trying to treat him whilst his partner is making life difficult by having a screaming fit and generally getting in the way of the para.

She is in complete hysterics, screaming that she's killed him and there are 2 kids in the house under 5 years old who are also in hysterics. He has taken a cocktail of Vodka, Red Bull, smack and some of Columbia's finest white. She has had similar but slightly less. They have argued and she has hit him on the head with a brass table lamp.

By the time the ambo arrives with my cousin in charge there are two police cars present as well as the first responder. The idiot needs to be taken to hospital to make sure that she hasn't actually cracked his skull, but is so high that he isn't coherent and in any case doesn't care. He wants to give her a kicking for hitting him with the lamp and meanwhile she has phoned her father who lives a few miles away.

Father turns up in a car and kicks off at everyone as he isn't going to be allowed to kick the crap out of the by now semi-conscious idiot. He has to be restrained by the police, who are now up to 6 with the arrival of 2 PCSOs. It's then noticed that he has arrived in a car that has no MOT or insurance, and he's also p!ssed and blows 100+ on the breathalyser.

At this point he [the father] is cuffed up and a van arrives to cart him off to the nick. He is unhappy about this and it takes most of the cops to chuck him in the back of the van. By this time most of the street have come out to see the entertainment.

Eventually they get the drunk / drugged idiot into the ambo, but at this point the woman has some kind of episode and a second ambo is called. Social services are also called as the kids are having screaming fits and there are no responsible adults in the place to look after them. She is also going to be locked up for assault, at least until she has sobered up.

Total sum: 1x first responder car, 2x ambos, 3x police cars, 1x police van, 5x paramedics, 6x police, 2x PCSOs.

Didn't even make the local newspapers.
People like these and how we treat them are the reason the UK is in the hole.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Clearly reading between my lines escapes you. Here's it in plain: the largest groups of people who consistently defraud the benefits system fit the profile of Conservative supporters, the very same people who persistently demonise the unemployed who draw on that benefit system. Sorry if that doesn't seem to fit your biased and Daily Hate inspired narrative about the feckless and workshy.
BTW I don't work in a JCP. My job's a bit more specialised than that.
And It's not welfare. It's benefits. And by 2023 all benefits are slated to be under UC - - which is also not called welfare. I spell: B-E-N-E-F-I-T-(S) and it's not pronounced welfare because it's not welfare because benefits are largely contribution based, welfare isn't

HTH
How does that work for someone whose never worked a day in their life (legally) so therefore never contributed?
 

HCL

LE
How does that work for someone whose never worked a day in their life (legally) so therefore never contributed?

If you're British then there are going to be some questions asked if you're not between 18 - 24. (There are circumstances a 16 year old can claim.) like what have you been doing, been in prison, how have you supported yourself, etc? but there aren't many that haven't claimed since they were 18/19 having left FT education or been on a training course, like the new kick start scheme.
Are they from the EU/EEA?
Can they pass the HRT - - habitual residency test? (pre-settled status or settled status)
Do they have indefinite leave to remain (ilr) or right to abode?
Do they have biometric immigration card/doc?
A letter from the Home Office with a NINO & employment letter
Think there's probably a couple more circumstances for getting benefits if you're not a Brit (incl Manx, Chan. Islanders, F. I.er, St Helena, etc) or Irish but basically if you do come under the above then no benefits. Income Support is no more, it's UC.
I get where you're coming from, and there are small groups of people who have never worked, like the severely physically disabled (mental disability is a whole different thread as it's v. complicated and involves competency), and a large but still small group of lazy and feckless so I guess and concede in their cases it should be called welfare and not benefits. But that's what the Benefit Cap is for to reduce benefits to incentivise (love the double speak) claimants to seek work. I don't like calling people who are on UC claimants but it's much better than the dehumanising "Benefit Units" that some very senior managers and their acolytes (like fast steamers) use. They're all human beings, all with a story of how they've ended up claiming and if they're legit I don't judge. I'm not a religious person but there for the grace of God go I. You also need to know that most people come off UC quite quickly but they'll owe the govt for the advance they'll have had because of the stupidity of paying UC a full calendar month to 6 weeks in arrears, it's not done to teach the ex weekly paid how to budget as is claimed but because it saves the govt money on paying out monthly instead of 2 weekly. The whole UC system is meant to streamline and consolidate all the different benefit streams into one as its different systems that have evolved over decades and that's a good thing, the bad thing is its a covert way of taking money off people and senior managers can and do behave like a beadle from Dickens as they ignore the law/regulations, some managers actual look for ways they can break the regs/law knowing that it can take 2 years before a Tribunal rectifies their decisions and they will have moved on - - the fast streamers usually.
I don't like the Kevin's and Kevinas, Wayne and Waynettas any more that any one else on Arrse but the system we have at the moment is contracting and it's causing decent people harm, for instance a homeless Brit person finds a bedsit that will take UC and needs help with the deposit before they can move in, sorry, please fcek off. A refugee/immigrant, no probs (but that's not UC that's govt funded agencies and charidees).
There's a certain demographic I have to deal with who I have come to loathe so I'm a hypocrite too as I'm prejudging anyone of that ilk automatically. I'm moving back to general service soon and I'll be glad to do so. But as I have said before the biggest defrauding toerags aren't the bog standard 1157 issue working class bloke, they're landlords - - mainly if a certain demographic but not confined to it by any means - - and the self employed who don't seem to have cottoned on that everything that HMRC know about them we do, in real time too.
Anyway enough. I've posted more here than I do in a month. I'm on a day off and going to have a fry up, with two sausages.

Edit typing
 

HCL

LE
Got any evidence for the above? Specifically “the largest groups of people who consistently defraud the benefits system fit the profile of conservative voters”? I’ll be interested to see it.

Incidentally, what does a conservative profile look like? Bald? Skinny? Black? Big boobs? Enlighten us.

I do the job. You don't.

And I would love to provide the evidence you're looking for but we don't collect party affiliations nor voting patterns. Wish we did, mind. Nor sexual prediclictions, fertility patterns, inside leg measurements, Branston with a cheese sarnie preference... But access to HMRC and bank records help with my unofficial political assessment as by and large income and assets are decent indicators.
Like I said, I can post like a bigot too, a man I know in the pub told me.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
I do the job. You don't.

And I would love to provide the evidence you're looking for but we don't collect party affiliations nor voting patterns. Wish we did, mind. Nor sexual prediclictions, fertility patterns, inside leg measurements, Branston with a cheese sarnie preference... But access to HMRC and bank records help with my unofficial political assessment as by and large income and assets are decent indicators.
Like I said, I can post like a bigot too, a man I know in the pub told m

Post like a bigot, no you are one.
 
If you're British then there are going to be some questions asked if you're not between 18 - 24. (There are circumstances a 16 year old can claim.) like what have you been doing, been in prison, how have you supported yourself, etc? but there aren't many that haven't claimed since they were 18/19 having left FT education or been on a training course, like the new kick start scheme.
Are they from the EU/EEA?
Can they pass the HRT - - habitual residency test? (pre-settled status or settled status)
Do they have indefinite leave to remain (ilr) or right to abode?
Do they have biometric immigration card/doc?
A letter from the Home Office with a NINO & employment letter
Think there's probably a couple more circumstances for getting benefits if you're not a Brit (incl Manx, Chan. Islanders, F. I.er, St Helena, etc) or Irish but basically if you do come under the above then no benefits. Income Support is no more, it's UC.
Been in prison? You cost £30K a year on average to incarcerate and have been nothing but a drain on society and a cost up until capture - workfare. Get on the chain gang and earn your way back to housing etc

ILTR, EU Citizen, stand on your own 2 feet (if I move permanently to Spain that's what I have to do in effect as while I was, pre-Brexit, entitled to the Spanish equivalents of various benefits you effectively get 12 weeks of their version of UC then it stops. Did I mention they have a "socialist" Govt, so if they can see the benefit in not providing a life on benefits option, why can't we?) . Run out of money? Go home. It's what you have to do if you are a Brit living abroad.
I get where you're coming from, and there are small groups of people who have never worked, like the severely physically disabled (mental disability is a whole different thread as it's v. complicated and involves competency), and a large but still small group of lazy and feckless so I guess and concede in their cases it should be called welfare and not benefits.
The genuinely in need, no drama. BUT, have you any idea how easy it is to get signed off by your GP, or the depth of the fukc GPs could not give to signing off the obvious scroungers who "know their rights innit n dat" to get them out of the surgery so they can treat actual tax-paying patients? I bet if GPs had liquidated and ascertained damages taken out of their income for every scrounger they knowingly signed off, the problem would half overnight, but again, it's other people's money (not theirs) so who gives a shit?

But that's what the Benefit Cap is for to reduce benefits to incentivise (love the double speak) claimants to seek work. I don't like calling people who are on UC claimants but it's much better than the dehumanising "Benefit Units" that some very senior managers and their acolytes (like fast steamers) use. They're all human beings, all with a story of how they've ended up claiming and if they're legit I don't judge. I'm not a religious person but there for the grace of God go I.
In a way it should "dehumanise". There was a time in my parents generation that being on the dole wasn't something to be proud of. Now, the constant hammering of the left has made it socially acceptable. It should be like drink driving.
You also need to know that most people come off UC quite quickly but they'll owe the govt for the advance they'll have had because of the stupidity of paying UC a full calendar month to 6 weeks in arrears, it's not done to teach the ex weekly paid how to budget as is claimed but because it saves the govt money on paying out monthly instead of 2 weekly.
If you get a job you get paid a month in arrears (very few, except if you are working through agency (or like me caught in the IR35 trap) get paid weekly (granted I could submit my invoices monthly) so why should UC claimants be any different?

I don't like the Kevin's and Kevinas, Wayne and Waynettas any more that any one else on Arrse but the system we have at the moment is contracting and it's causing decent people harm, for instance a homeless Brit person finds a bedsit that will take UC and needs help with the deposit before they can move in, sorry, please fcek off. A refugee/immigrant, no probs (but that's not UC that's govt funded agencies and charidees).
Granted, we should be discouraging "economic migrants" as there are very few places in the world you should genuinely bee seeking refuge from where the UK is the first safe haven you can reach.

There's a certain demographic I have to deal with who I have come to loathe so I'm a hypocrite too as I'm prejudging anyone of that ilk automatically. I'm moving back to general service soon and I'll be glad to do so. But as I have said before the biggest defrauding toerags aren't the bog standard 1157 issue working class bloke, they're landlords - - mainly if a certain demographic but not confined to it by any means - - and the self employed who don't seem to have cottoned on that everything that HMRC know about them we do, in real time too.
Slumlolrds have always been with us. That doesn't mean everyone who owns investment property is a crook. In fact, owning an investment property now is hardly worth it seeing as all of the tax benefits of investment have been snatched away.

True dit. A few years ago I did a piece of work for a large housing assoc sorting out their commercial property strategy. I was sat on a desk in the office where they dealt with rent queries and arrears. I overheard a conversation where a "tenant" was being chased for 6 months unpaid rent. It turned out (from eavesdropping on this very long conversation) that the tenant, of Pakistani origin, had suddenly found himself in receipt of his housing benefit that would usually be paid directly to the Assoc. Rather than pay his rent he used the money to fukc off to Pakistan, taking his family with him for 3 months. DWP got wind and stopped his payments. Now owing 6 months rent his argument was that it wasn't his problem, it was the Government's because they had given him this money and he had decided to spend it "going home" so the Govt should just pay his rent because that's what they had always done. I doubt very much he was stupid enough to believe that HMG had decided in their benevolence to give him a bonus and were continuing to pay his housing costs as well as the new found cash injection from his housing benefit so it was obvious he was taking the pi55, more so when he offered tp pay his arrears back at £5 a month.

The benefits system and the NHS are 2 of the most monumental wastes of public money imaginable.

Oh, have we talked about fraud, health tourism, and theft in the NHS and how little it actually does to recover any of it?
 

HCL

LE
Been in prison? You cost £30K a year on average to incarcerate and have been nothing but a drain on society and a cost up until capture - workfare. Get on the chain gang and earn your way back to housing etc

ILTR, EU Citizen, stand on your own 2 feet (if I move permanently to Spain that's what I have to do in effect as while I was, pre-Brexit, entitled to the Spanish equivalents of various benefits you effectively get 12 weeks of their version of UC then it stops. Did I mention they have a "socialist" Govt, so if they can see the benefit in not providing a life on benefits option, why can't we?) . Run out of money? Go home. It's what you have to do if you are a Brit living abroad.

The genuinely in need, no drama. BUT, have you any idea how easy it is to get signed off by your GP, or the depth of the fukc GPs could not give to signing off the obvious scroungers who "know their rights innit n dat" to get them out of the surgery so they can treat actual tax-paying patients? I bet if GPs had liquidated and ascertained damages taken out of their income for every scrounger they knowingly signed off, the problem would half overnight, but again, it's other people's money (not theirs) so who gives a shit?


In a way it should "dehumanise". There was a time in my parents generation that being on the dole wasn't something to be proud of. Now, the constant hammering of the left has made it socially acceptable. It should be like drink driving.

If you get a job you get paid a month in arrears (very few, except if you are working through agency (or like me caught in the IR35 trap) get paid weekly (granted I could submit my invoices monthly) so why should UC claimants be any different?


Granted, we should be discouraging "economic migrants" as there are very few places in the world you should genuinely bee seeking refuge from where the UK is the first safe haven you can reach.


Slumlolrds have always been with us. That doesn't mean everyone who owns investment property is a crook. In fact, owning an investment property now is hardly worth it seeing as all of the tax benefits of investment have been snatched away.

True dit. A few years ago I did a piece of work for a large housing assoc sorting out their commercial property strategy. I was sat on a desk in the office where they dealt with rent queries and arrears. I overheard a conversation where a "tenant" was being chased for 6 months unpaid rent. It turned out (from eavesdropping on this very long conversation) that the tenant, of Pakistani origin, had suddenly found himself in receipt of his housing benefit that would usually be paid directly to the Assoc. Rather than pay his rent he used the money to fukc off to Pakistan, taking his family with him for 3 months. DWP got wind and stopped his payments. Now owing 6 months rent his argument was that it wasn't his problem, it was the Government's because they had given him this money and he had decided to spend it "going home" so the Govt should just pay his rent because that's what they had always done. I doubt very much he was stupid enough to believe that HMG had decided in their benevolence to give him a bonus and were continuing to pay his housing costs as well as the new found cash injection from his housing benefit so it was obvious he was taking the pi55, more so when he offered tp pay his arrears back at £5 a month.

The benefits system and the NHS are 2 of the most monumental wastes of public money imaginable.

Oh, have we talked about fraud, health tourism, and theft in the NHS and how little it actually does to recover any of it?

I disagree with little of your post re the "dole" but there are more decent people in the system than not; the bigger problem is that UC is not the solution and it is causing more harm than good, its it is not fit for purpose. If something goes wrong with the claim and it frequently does then the claimant is thoroughly screwed because, apart from the Trussell Trust and their kind, nothing is done for them. The max food bank is 3 times a year. It. Takes usually 2 - 12 weeks to fix problems. And all that time you have no money and no govt assistance. Don't get me started on welfare assistance funds administered by local council, utter fcek ups, the stories I am not allowed to tell about council! Absolute bast@rds.
At least with the work house people could get some food, a bed and clothing in emergencies. UC leaves people to starve and without heat and without shelter, this happens thousands of times every month. And do you know why this happens? Because human contact has been taken out of the equation. Pre Corvid (and it will be post Corvid to) turn up at the Job Centre in distress and you're steered to a PC and told to login and leave a message. Once that's done you're told to go. A building full of people with the power to help and they're not allowed to. The system is Catch 22 turned inside out. Lewis Carroll could have written a third Alice book based on UC.
Not all LLs are fiddlers, a lot when I dealt with that side were decent and did try to help their tenants but there are too many who take the p1ss out of the system.
But never mind, I'm going back onto driving a normal desk soon so I'll be free of grinding my teeth when I'm told NFA when they're bang to rights.
As for the NHS, they saved my kid's life, they can spunk as much money up the wall as they want so long as they keep doing things like that. I think Boris now feels the same after his little brush with Corvid. Don't forget, Maggie said let them keep the NHS.

Edit typing
 

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