FRES; four small steps closer.

#3
No wonder the DPA contracts go so far over budget, all the shite they spout in their briefings and reports. 8O
 
#4
What a waste of money. Would have been far quicker and cheaper to select a decent sized family of vehicles already in use and upgrade over the lifetime of the system...... It's stale, dry, mouldy bread with worms in it today and half a teaspoon of cheap jam in 10 years.
 
#5
Kitmarlowe said:
What a waste of money. Would have been far quicker and cheaper to select a decent sized family of vehicles already in use and upgrade over the lifetime of the system...... It's stale, dry, mouldy bread with worms in it today and half a teaspoon of cheap jam in 10 years.
Cheap jam? Who the duck are you trying to kid? It'll be very expensive and not particularly good jam, but it certainly won't be cheap.

Think of a man who needs a Ford Galaxy and promptly goes into the Vauxhall dealer to see what they can come up with coz it's either closer to his house or his mate works in the service department. He finds himself faced with the choice of the Zafira (right number of seats but too small and too slow) and the VXR Monaro (not enough seats, no diesel option). So he takes them both for a long testdrive with his mate who works in Halfords and reads MAX POWER. Naturally his mate recommends rebodying the Monaro and dieselising it in 10 years time when he's got a bit more money. They can do this for twice the price of the Galaxy and it'll take 2 years before he can have the car, but what the hell, the guy's a mate so it doesn't really matter and of course there's a really good finance deal at the Vauxhall dealer's whereby you pay to develop the Monaro hybrid, lease it off Vauxhall for 20 years for 3 times more than it would have cost to buy it outright and then Vauxhall keep it at the end.

Any likeness between the above and the antics of the DPA/DLO and PFI/PPP is entirely coincidental :wink:
 
#7
Thing is that it it only contracts to see what systems will/may be used in FRES so after all the work we may well still be back at square one. Still the 432 has a life span now till 2015+ so thats all right!!
 
#9
You cannan change the laws of physics.

Electronic armour, small highly mobile, highly protected light armoured vehicles? A400M, when we should have bought more C-17?

In my life time? 430 will be able to draw it's pension before it leaves service.

Watch out for the future life up grade to CR2 and WR until 2030!
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
FRES is being developed to replace the CVR(T) family plus Saxon and up armour the roles currently carried out by some soft skinned vehicles. There is no intention for it to replace any other armoured vehicle in servce except for a few, small, specialist roles. replacing Warrior etc is not in the current plan. the vehicle is planned to be light, fast, quiet with a decent level of arour based upon a common platform but with many variants. Really a 21st century "Son Of Scorpion."

As for the FV430 series, your only hope of replacing them in the foreseeable future in the infantry role is for a stripped down version of Terrier to be developed using the lock down suspension as mortor platform. A damned impressive little toy it is as well.
 
#11
MIB I think that 43 will be with us till it finally is retired, based on my conversations with the managment at Andover for my FV430 book, quite an achievment though for a vehicle that was duee out of service in the 80's, bit like the Centurion.
 
#14
The initial concept for FRES was a one size fits all vehicle that could do anything up to and including a variant with CR2 firepower and protection in a C-130 transportable envelope. Since then as the laws of physics begin to be understood by the DPA the desired capability has slowly and inevitably been reduced. Awarding this sort of study is vital in that they allow this reduction in desired capability to occur slowly enough not to be noticed, thus achieving the prime goal of the civil servant, namely not letting anyone know you were talking b@llocks when you told the Minister what to say.

I predict that by the time a decision to buy comes along we'll merely point to the shelf and say we'll have a few of those. Then we'll double the price by introducing UK only mods that compromise delivery dates, reliability and spares support. Write a buzzword loaded Poerpoint presentation and voila !
 
#16
What bugs me is the bollocks spoken about supporting British Industry when this Governmnet has done more to shaft British Industry in the last 8 years than the last 80 years of stupidity
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
British industry has been allowed to shaft the defence budget with some second rate products whilst major UK assetts have been allowed to wither away by the MOD. The two sides deserve each other.

An example was the F4 Phantom, the UK delivered version had to have a percentage by value of UK content hence the engines were changed to Rolls-Royce producing a slower aircraft. The Tucano used up most of its US content in the engine and the result was a set of badly designed cockpit instruments that didn't resemble Hawk or Tornado and were installed with such a poor mounting system that one primary instrument fell out in flight and jammed the controls. At the same time subsidised French companies are allowed to bid "on a level playing field" against UK companies who have to pay their own way in the world.

On the other hand the Apache UK content consists of a pair of scissors for cutting the tape on the packing case and ten Stanley screwdrivers and some Airfix glue for a dwarf in Yeovil to build the kit; the offset was alowing the sale of HP sauce through "Irish" shops in Boston and an agreement not to remake "The Office" with Keanu Reeves as a witty and generous boss fighting the corporation on behalf of his staff.
 
#19
Just had a quick scan of the websites fro FRES. How much management bulls1t can they cram into one space, it's totally unreadable. What's Rapid Effect when it's at home?
 
#20
MikeMcc said:
Just had a quick scan of the websites fro FRES. How much management bulls1t can they cram into one space, it's totally unreadable. What's Rapid Effect when it's at home?
It would make more sense and be closer to the truth if they dropped the "rapid" bit.
 

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