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FRES 2: The Revenge aka MIV

Someone mentioned Russian 57mm experiments on another thread;
Tactics_of_Russian_motor_rifle_brigades_will_change_with_introduction_of_Armata_tracked_platform_640_002_zpsramvqjtc.jpg

Ooi, is there a point where calibre Vs rounds carried in an APC reaches a point where 50 rounds of 40mm are more useful than , say, 20 rounds of 57mm ? Sustainability, weight and all that, plus number of dismounts carried ? Just Curious.
 
Ooi, is there a point where calibre Vs rounds carried in an APC reaches a point where 50 rounds of 40mm are more useful than , say, 20 rounds of 57mm ? Sustainability, weight and all that, plus number of dismounts carried ? Just Curious.

Yes - there’s a metric referred to as number of ‘stowed kills’, which does what it says on the tin.

Unsurprisingly, It depends very much on what you’re trying to kill!


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So AJAX could allegedly 'kill' 220 'previous generation MBTs'.... as long as we avoid the arkward metric that a pedestrian T55's 100mm round will open up AJAX like a crisp packet.
 
I think we've covered that one as a daft idea a good few times.
Arming Ajax with a 30mm and expecting it to survive any length of time in a enemy tank rich environment is just as daft. Ditto if you up gunned it to 57mm. You can only fire at one target at a time. Expect to come second if facing superior numbers of enemy tanks with Ajax, even with a 120mm. Eff off quicker than a quick thing is a better approach to long term survival.
 
I think we've covered that one as a daft idea a good few times.
Arming Ajax with a 30mm and expecting it to survive any length of time in a enemy tank rich environment is just as daft. Ditto if you up gunned it to 57mm. You can only fire at one target at a time. Expect to come second if facing superior numbers of enemy tanks with Ajax, even with a 120mm. Eff off quicker than a quick thing is a better approach to long term survival.


Alas, the good ideas club still call it a 'medium tank', able to 'defeat previous generation MBTs'.

Now 57mm, that the same calibre as the old 6lb gun and we're finally getting some worthwhile bang that can really bite proper armour.
 
I see Himmler is banging the sabc button like a retard on a drum kit.

Tell us Himmler, what was the lesson learned during WWII about arming light armoured vehicles that would need to fight for information?
 
Which lesson? The one where they upgunned the Staghound with a 6pdr AT gun so it could kill anything short of a heavy tank or the one where if they really wanted to poke the hornets nest they sent a troop of Cromwells with artillery support?
 
Which lesson? The one where they upgunned the Staghound with a 6pdr AT gun so it could kill anything short of a heavy tank or the one where if they really wanted to poke the hornets nest they sent a troop of Cromwells with artillery support?


That's the badger.

Sending stuff with peashooters to see what the grown ups were up to just ended up with lots of scrap metal and dead people.
As you say, it was an up gunning of heavy recce with 6lb guns,(and even 75's), until the penny dropped and they started sending proper tanks to do the job.

With AJAX, all we are proving is we've forgotten the very hard won lessons of the western desert. If you can see it, it can see you, and it's got a bigger gun, you loose.
 
Ooi, is there a point where calibre Vs rounds carried in an APC reaches a point where 50 rounds of 40mm are more useful than , say, 20 rounds of 57mm ? Sustainability, weight and all that, plus number of dismounts carried ? Just Curious.
Look at the Ratels, wheeled yes but they deployed a 90mm version which didn't carry dismounts and could destroy T55 tanks along with a troop carrying version armed with a 20mm cannon. A good mix in my opinion. If the twenties were caught out away from the 90's in theory the dismounts could deploy an anti armour weapon!
 
Interestingly, the saffers went for the Roikat as a means of whacking the oppo. The HV 75mm is quite pokey and it does get through a T55 front glacis.
That said, Imho, upgunning AJAX beyond 40mm will only put it more deeply into "tank killer" territory which we all know is a daft idea for the poor buggers crewing it. The bigger the gun, the more it will get treated like a big boys toy.
 
Interestingly, the saffers went for the Roikat as a means of whacking the oppo. The HV 75mm is quite pokey and it does get through a T55 front glacis.
That said, Imho, upgunning AJAX beyond 40mm will only put it more deeply into "tank killer" territory which we all know is a daft idea for the poor buggers crewing it. The bigger the gun, the more it will get treated like a big boys toy.


Problem, itsalready regaded as a 'medium tank' avd it's expected to fit proper tanks.

Playing at 'tank' with a 40mm vs playing at 'tank' with a 120mm - I know which option increases the survivability.
 
Says who? No tankie that I've spoken to thinks of it as a tank destroyer. They like the 40mm, but as they normally play with 120mm shells and 65 plus tons of armour , they have a pretty good idea of its limitations.
 

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