FRES 2: The Revenge aka MIV

There has been several high profile cases of dodgy quality control in spanish made defence products over the years.

In the 1990s the CETME L and LC rifles and AMELI LMG both in 5,56 mm were known to have a very poor build. They were quickly phased out.

The A400M built in Sevilla have also had issues.

 
There has been several high profile cases of dodgy quality control in spanish made defence products over the years.

In the 1990s the CETME L and LC rifles and AMELI LMG both in 5,56 mm were known to have a very poor build. They were quickly phased out.

The A400M built in Sevilla have also had issues.

I was once with a company in the 1990s time frame who had some Renault automotive tooling (customer owned) that was made in Spain. It was cheap and nasty. I was told at the time that European companies were having a lot of tooling work done in Spain because labour was cheap. Because work was being sourced there on the basis of cost the lowest bidder was always chosen regardless of quality.

When skimping on labour costs companies will also typically skimp on tooling and equipment costs as well and give their low paid workers low quality tools to work with. I suspect the Spanish can do good work, but you have to be willing to pay for good work.
 
There has been several high profile cases of dodgy quality control in spanish made defence products over the years.

In the 1990s the CETME L and LC rifles and AMELI LMG both in 5,56 mm were known to have a very poor build. They were quickly phased out.

The A400M built in Sevilla have also had issues.

Don't forget the much cheaper/wrong type of metal used in the fabrication of some leopard tanks.
 
probably illustrative of the level of protection required
Also a much expanded electronics suite. The VAB usually had a simple VHF radio, as evidenced by the single antenna, but just look at the gumpf on top of the Griffon.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I've been chatting to a relative who works in Gateshead making tracked excavators (up to 45T), and he just refused to believe that they were welding by hand let alone didn't have jigs and fixtures. Virtually all of their welding is robotic with lots of hydraulics to hold things in place during assembly.

Was this Spanish outfit the lowest bidder or convenient for someone's holiday home?

SBS are part of GDLS Europe, on the same manner as Hagglunds is part of BAE, so Hulls for GDLS Europe vehicles tend to be built there.

This is not the first time QC issues have arisen at SBS, the both the Spanish Leo and P5 contracts were cancelled and reset as the build quality was atrocious
 
Also a much expanded electronics suite. The VAB usually had a simple VHF radio, as evidenced by the single antenna, but just look at the gumpf on top of the Griffon.

Very true.
VAB does strike me as a useful vehicle though that could be upgraded.
Mind you, the age of the hulls night say otherwise.
 
Very true.
VAB does strike me as a useful vehicle though that could be upgraded.
Mind you, the age of the hulls night say otherwise.

It has already been upgraded several times.
The final version, for the French Army, is the VAB Ultima which has, among other features, a RWS, IED jamming systems and acoustic locating system against small arms fire.

There is an infantry and an engineers version of the VAB Ultima


bi_olivier.julian_vab-ultima_6833-0068_rima3_1.jpg
 
It has already been upgraded several times.
The final version, for the French Army, is the VAB Ultima which has, among other features, a RWS, IED jamming systems and acoustic locating system against small arms fire.

There is an infantry and an engineers version of the VAB Ultima


View attachment 591240

It needs Aircon, a BV and chilly bin. Just one 500ml bottle of cold water can improve morale wonderously in a place like Mali
 
I suspect it's the same issue as Boxer.

There's no point making a small vehicle if you ends up hanging all the kit the crew needs on the outside where it can be trashed....

Which I fully understand and so withdraw previous remarks viz modern AFV Growth. Although I do wonder why A) 10 days supplies was the requirement for storage on Boxer
B) How much space they take up thus compounding vehicle size.
C) If 3 days wouldnt have made more sense and adding an extra Husky for transporting Coy stores if we really need 10 days without battle group ressuply (except of course fuel + ammunition*).

Also why I would argue that whilst CV90 may be good for CVRT replacement** Instead of AJAX family - because the crew is smaller as an IFV - It may not meet the requirements for all storage under armour



* Puts me in mind of the CVN v non nuke - doesnt need fuel so no tanker - well sure but the rest of the fleet does as do all the flying bits - so it really doesnt make a massive differrence to resupply schedules or even quantities.

** assuming and avoiding arguments as to whether IFV based remains the answer
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
SBS are part of GDLS Europe, on the same manner as Hagglunds is part of BAE, so Hulls for GDLS Europe vehicles tend to be built there.

This is not the first time QC issues have arisen at SBS, the both the Spanish Leo and P5 contracts were cancelled and reset as the build quality was atrocious
Contractual dilemma, then. Known issues, and all that.
 
It has got air con.

The French forces are not that keen on hot drinks 24/7, it's more a British/northern european thing
Mais il faut toujours prendre un petit cahoua le matin, hein?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
It has got air con.

The French forces are not that keen on hot drinks 24/7, it's more a British/northern european thing

Wine Fridge?
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
The proponents of such things would claim that rail transport is unnecessary for 8 wheelers.
True - but then those proponents seldom have experience outside of spreadsheets. Tyre wear is always going to be a concern, and 8x8 tyres are big and heavy....
 
It has got air con.

The French forces are not that keen on hot drinks 24/7, it's more a British/northern european thing

Eh ? 3-4am is cold, even in the desert. A hot coffee wins many friends.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Which I fully understand and so withdraw previous remarks viz modern AFV Growth. Although I do wonder why A) 10 days supplies was the requirement for storage on Boxer
B) How much space they take up thus compounding vehicle size.
C) If 3 days wouldnt have made more sense and adding an extra Husky for transporting Coy stores if we really need 10 days without battle group ressuply (except of course fuel + ammunition*).

Also why I would argue that whilst CV90 may be good for CVRT replacement** Instead of AJAX family - because the crew is smaller as an IFV - It may not meet the requirements for all storage under armour



* Puts me in mind of the CVN v non nuke - doesnt need fuel so no tanker - well sure but the rest of the fleet does as do all the flying bits - so it really doesnt make a massive differrence to resupply schedules or even quantities.

** assuming and avoiding arguments as to whether IFV based remains the answer
Interesting - got proof of the 10 day ORP requirement? For a BOXER APC with 3+8 that’s 110 x 24hr @ 350 per pallet = 1/3 of a NATO pallet which needs either a big bin or a lot of internal space.

3 days would be much more like it.
 

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