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FRES 2: The Revenge aka MIV

Something suddenly struck me last night in that the Army may have missed a trick.

I suggest the German Wiesel should have been looked at.


Nice range of variants, proven design and small, as shown in this picture of a Wiesel behind a Boxer ;-)

 
Something suddenly struck me last night in that the Army may have missed a trick.

I suggest the German Wiesel should have been looked at.


Nice range of variants, proven design and small, as shown in this picture of a Wiesel behind a Boxer ;-)

It came on exercise with 5AB quite a lit at the end of the 90s.
Driven into Chinooks, underslung etc etc

Think any acquisition fell into track ownership grey areas and then was heaved out along with ATMP and the bathwater once Telic/Herrick kicked off
 
It came on exercise with 5AB quite a lit at the end of the 90s.
Driven into Chinooks, underslung etc etc

Think any acquisition fell into track ownership grey areas and then was heaved out along with ATMP and the bathwater once Telic/Herrick kicked off
Perfect for light Cav ...they used to have AB role. Call them AirCav ?
 
Published by: The British Army/MoD, on 27 July 2020.

First Ares Armoured Vehicles Delivered to the Army.

Named for the ancient Greek god of war, Ares delivers a step-change in the British Army’s battlefield capability. Last week, the first six vehicles were delivered to the Household Cavalry Regiment at Bulford, Wiltshire.


DES-2017-273-0175.jpg


Ares, and the other variants in the Ajax family of armoured vehicles, will replace the Army’s Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) (CVR(T)) vehicles which have been the mainstay of armoured reconnaissance for almost fifty years.

CVR(T) has proved itself on the battlefield in the Falklands and the in the deserts of the Middle East, but now requires a replacement to maintain the Army’s position as a top tier performer and to match the needs of the twenty-first century.

The Ajax family consists of Ares a troop-carrying reconnaissance vehicle, Ajax armed with a formidable 40mm cannon, support variants Apollo and Atlas, a command and control variant Athena, and an engineer variant – Argus.

Ares, part of the Ajax family of armoured vehicles, is being built by General Dynamics in Merthyr Tydfil, bringing hundreds of jobs and wider opportunities to Wales. The vehicles will give the Army’s Armoured Infantry and Strike Brigades a critical advantage over any likely opponent, through a combination of the latest technology, exemplary levels of crew protection, and, of course, our world-class professional soldiers.

Colonel Justin Kingsford, the Ajax Programme Director said: ‘This is an exciting moment for the Army. The delivery of ARES this week is an important step on our journey to give the Army an amazing state of the art, world beating Armoured Fighting Vehicle’

Describing the vehicle in greater depth, he went on to say:

‘Ajax will allow us to manage battlespace information faster from a modern digitised platform, with increased lethality through the new 40mm cannon. Better mobility, alongside enhanced protection levels and increased reliability underline the transformational nature of the capability. A comprehensive simulated training suite supports this fleet and ensures we invest fully in our crews to get the very best of this capability.’


(Also copied on the other AJAX, and the WARRIOR threads).
 
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Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Something suddenly struck me last night in that the Army may have missed a trick.

I suggest the German Wiesel should have been looked at.

Nice range of variants, proven design and small, as shown in this picture of a Wiesel behind a Boxer ;-)
It came on exercise with 5AB quite a lit at the end of the 90s.
Driven into Chinooks, underslung etc etc

Think any acquisition fell into track ownership grey areas and then was heaved out along with ATMP and the bathwater once Telic/Herrick kicked off
It was looked at - and with covetous eyes. The Paras wanted it. Budgets said no.
 
Oh, violent agreement here.

Not sure Wiesel is the answer for some of the bigger roles but the Airborne brethren would have been very happy.
They wouldn’t, have you seen them? Had a look inside? They would have brewed up faster than snatch.
 
They wouldn’t, have you seen them? Had a look inside? They would have brewed up faster than snatch.


Ajax isn't exactly bullet proof and is certainly bigger all round. Which does imply it's going to be seen a bit more often and shot at a lot more often with a lot more target to aim at.

Which is back to the argument of whether recce is to sneak around and uncover Intelligence without being seen too often or if recce is to fight for info.

Ajax is a bit too big and a bit too light for both options to work well.
 
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Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Ajax isn't exactly bullet proof and is certainly bigger all round. Which does imply it's going to be seen a bit more often and shot at a lot more often with a lot more target to aim at.

Which is back to the argument of whether recce is to sneak around and uncover Intelligence without being seen too often or if recce is to fight for info.

Ajax is a bit too big and a bit too light for both options to work well.
Then we're back to another German design - Fennek.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Yeah. Should have picked up Wiesel way back. Would have made a major contribution to recce for a couple of decades by now instead of pretending Jackel can do the job.
Theatre-specific solution taken into core, though. We've got Jackal because we've got Jackal.

Those I've spoken to who've spoken to people are converted to AJAX - in the sense that'll it'll be good, apparently. Should've had a mast-mounted sight and we should have had an overwatch version, though. The latter can be solved by adding Javelin and not relying on airburst sponges dismounts - that would be one glaring omission addressed.
 
Theatre-specific solution taken into core, though. We've got Jackal because we've got Jackal.

Those I've spoken to who've spoken to people are converted to AJAX - in the sense that'll it'll be good, apparently. Should've had a mast-mounted sight and we should have had an overwatch version, though. The latter can be solved by adding Javelin and not relying on airburst sponges dismounts - that would be one glaring omission addressed.


Both should have been available from the start.

1999 I went to Wainwright for one of the Pond Jump West exercises. During one phase we managed to wrangle a cabby in a Canadian Army LAV with a mast mounted sight system.

It's 2020 and we're bringing into service a recce vehicle that still lacks this useful tool.

As for Javelin, would it not make sense to take advantage of the vehicle and fit a bigger ATGW like Spike NLOS, which we already use ?

Or is this going to be case of running a few Javelin Cadres and sticking a couple of missiles in the back and a CLU and claiming that's the overwatch capability ?
 
Both should have been available from the start.

1999 I went to Wainwright for one of the Pond Jump West exercises. During one phase we managed to wrangle a cabby in a Canadian Army LAV with a mast mounted sight system.

It's 2020 and we're bringing into service a recce vehicle that still lacks this useful tool.

As for Javelin, would it not make sense to take advantage of the vehicle and fit a bigger ATGW like Spike NLOS, which we already use ?

Or is this going to be case of running a few Javelin Cadres and sticking a couple of missiles in the back and a CLU and claiming that's the overwatch capability ?

A couple of things about Spike NLOS:

1) It’s bloody massive - even more difficult to reload in the field than something like Hellfire or Brimstone
2) The NLOS capability isn’t really that easy to use against moving targets - the operator essentially flies the missile onto the target area before locking on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
30 months......

 

gafkiwi

War Hero
How long from initial tender to delivery then ?
2015 so 5yrs. Not bad considering that included all the negotiation for the bulk to be domestically produced and also Rheinmetall identifying and approving local sources like mines and refineries for the armour etc. I guess when you have the cash and want to get it spent before it's reallocated you can be pretty motivated especially when you have people happy to bend to get the cash.
 
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2015. Not bad considering that included all the domestic production negotiation and also Rheinmetall identifying and approving local sources like mines and refineries for the armour etc. I guess when you want the cash you can move pretty fast.
How long to fix them, then buy something else like the Tigre?
 

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