French civilian trying to identify 1940 "Known unto God" grave

That's why he wasn't prosecuted, not enough proof. Got an excuse for multiple murders in the grounds of Meyer's Divisional HQ?


That would be the US prisoners captured late in the battle, once it was obvious to Peiper that they were losing and he would likely be captured himself? I'd suggest that Malmedy and Wereth were proof of intention.

Isn't it interesting that the German troops were perfectly happy to carry out mass-murder when they were winning, but as soon as they realised that it was time to surrender, it was "no, we never did any of that, a big boy did it and ran away, we only did it because the Soviets were beastly and started first".

Multiple SS units and formations, committed war crimes across Poland in 1939 and France in 1940. Not because they were fragile, but because they thought they could get away with it.
AIUI, and I've read a few books but don't claim to be an expert, Wehrmacht SOP for counter-partisan ops in the west was to take hostages and warn the town that if there were any attacks the hostages would be shot. SS SOP was to take hostages, murder half then warn the town that if there were any attacks the other half would be shot.
 
Fairy Nuff (ish) but that's not what the link says. Mind you, it also says 'solider'.

As we all should know, headlines and the article underneath them are often two very different things.
 
That's why he wasn't prosecuted, not enough proof. Got an excuse for multiple murders in the grounds of Meyer's Divisional HQ?


That would be the US prisoners captured late in the battle, once it was obvious to Peiper that they were losing and he would likely be captured himself? I'd suggest that Malmedy and Wereth were proof of intention.

Isn't it interesting that the German troops were perfectly happy to carry out mass-murder when they were winning, but as soon as they realised that it was time to surrender, it was "no, we never did any of that, a big boy did it and ran away, we only did it because the Soviets were beastly and started first".

Multiple SS units and formations, committed war crimes across Poland in 1939 and France in 1940. Not because they were fragile, but because they thought they could get away with it.
Jeez you sure you aren't goth you are so frikken EMO

You can suggest what you want, that doesn't make it facts son
Peiper still never gave any order to massacre US POW's at Baugnez crossroads (Malmedy) in fact he wasnt present at the time having moved his lead elements forward


For the record Peiper WAS Prosecuted in the Dachau trials champ US vs. Valentin Bersin et al.


He was found guilty and sentenced to death, the sentence commuted
upon legal review of sentence. it was alleged he and the others were tortured by the US CIC teams, fake executions, mock trials , false evidence given, etc. trial irregularities riddles the trial at Dachau.

https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/Malmedy_report.pdf
 
Jeez you sure you aren't goth you are so frikken EMO
Just for clarity - are you of the "Waffen-SS were awesome soldiers, loyal unto death, unfairly libelled by bitter victors, any war crimes were no more than anyone else did" persuasion? Likes a natty black uniform, thinks lightning bolts are k3wl? Reckons we're being nasty and unfair to those poor blonde Aryans?

Bad news, they were a bit sh!t, even for Germans - AIUI one analysis reckoned that compared side-by-side with the Wehrmacht, the SS would take twice as many casualties for any given operation without being any more successful. Fanaticism doesn't make for good soldiering.

Says the slobberer of the Dresden bombing
Dresden had it coming. That's what you get for being a major rail junction and logistics hub, in a country that's spent the previous five years trying to bomb the crap out of civilian populations across Europe as a matter of doctrine (when it wasn't making them slave labour, or herding them into cattle trucks).

I just found out this year that my mother-in-law can remember the Clydebank Blitz, she lived a few miles away and heard it all...
 
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Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Just for clarity - are you of the "Waffen-SS were awesome soldiers, loyal unto death, unfairly libelled by bitter victors, any war crimes were no more than anyone else did" persuasion? Likes a natty black uniform, thinks lightning bolts are k3wl? Reckons we're being nasty and unfair to those poor blonde Aryans?

Bad news, they were a bit sh!t, even for Germans - AIUI one analysis reckoned that compared side-by-side with the Wehrmacht, the SS would take twice as many casualties for any given operation without being any more successful. Fanaticism doesn't make for good soldiering.


Dresden had it coming. That's what you get for being a major rail junction and logistics hub, in a country that's spent the previous five years trying to bomb the crap out of civilian populations across Europe as a matter of doctrine (when it wasn't making them slave labour, or herding them into cattle trucks).

I just found out this year that my mother-in-law can remember the Clydebank Blitz, she lived a few miles away and heard it all...
IF you bothered to read my posts NOWHERE have I ever claimed they were supersoldiers, but dumbasses like you assume that
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
IF you bothered to read my posts NOWHERE have I ever claimed they were supersoldiers, but dumbasses like you assume that

Then stop being an apologist for them. "Emotionally fragile" / "didn't cope with casualties" my arse, they were just war criminals. You didn't see the US / French / British / Italian armies routinely murdering PoW once they'd won a battle, why make excuses for the Waffen-SS?
 

Awol

LE
Interestingly, I watched a YouTube thingy a couple of weeks ago made by the US Airforce in the very early ‘50s. It was one of those instructional films designed to advise service personnel (in this case aircrew, obviously) in how to Escape and Evade. It was clearly set to a Cold War background (the crew of about ten had baled out over enemy territory upon returning from a bombing raid). All of the locals they encountered spoke German so it was clearly supposed to be fliers escaping from East to West Germany after the Cold War got crispy.

At one point the ‘fliers’ were discussing whether it was worth wearing civilian outfits to travel faster to freedom, the only alternative was obviously to hide in daylight and travel by night. In civvies, they could conceivably hop on a train and be close to a friendly border within hours, by night, on foot it could take months (Although dramatised, all the stories and figures were true, and one pair of NCOs actually did walk 1100 miles).

So it was a big decision and one of the crew spoke about the risks of being shot as spies if caught and the narrator clarified it with the somewhat surprising comment (to me at least) that it was permitted under the Geneva Convention to don civvies if it was done purely to aid escape from enemy territory and as long as one wasn’t blurring the lines by taking happy snaps at passing missile convoys.

Of course the SS didn’t give a flying fox for the Convention anyway, and the ruling may have even been introduced post WW2, but I thought the above amnesty about evading in civvies was of enough interest to post here.

The video is about 45mins long and is on YouTube under the rather catchy title ‘Escape and Evade’ or something very similar. It was marked ‘Top Secret’ when released which I find always makes one get a little giddy with excitement.
 
Then stop being an apologist for them. "Emotionally fragile" / "didn't cope with casualties" my arse, they were just war criminals. You didn't see the US / French / British / Italian armies routinely murdering PoW once they'd won a battle, why make excuses for the Waffen-SS?
Oh Shut up I wasnt being an apologist you emo wibbler
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
The majority of Lettow Vorbecks force in East Africa was local with German officers.
They fought to the very end. In their case after 11/11/18.
I suspect Nazi ideology was the problem.
The Germans had a very nasty track record in their Colonies, long before the Nazis were even thought of.

 

Serpico

War Hero
The Germans had a very nasty track record in their Colonies, long before the Nazis were even thought of.


I think when you compare the Nazi's with what came before them, you can see a fair few startling similarities between them and the Prussian militarist ideas that began to hold sway in the late 1800's. Quite interesting really
 
I think when you compare the Nazi's with what came before them, you can see a fair few startling similarities between them and the Prussian militarist ideas that began to hold sway in the late 1800's. Quite interesting really
The Germans of the 1890's were very into the pseudo science of eugenics, which went on to underpin the Holocaust.
The Nazis were simply refining and industrialising the cleansing of the "ideal" Aryan gene pool.
Apparently, Herman Goering's dad was involved in the Herero genocide, so the ideas would have been known at the highest levels of Nazi policy making.
 
The Germans had a very nasty track record in their Colonies, long before the Nazis were even thought of.


Quite unlike the British, Belgians, Dutch, French, Spanish or Portuguese, all of whom were sweetness and light in their administration of their colonies in comparison to the evil sausage-eaters.
 
Quite unlike the British, Belgians, Dutch, French, Spanish or Portuguese, all of whom were sweetness and light in their administration of their colonies in comparison to the evil sausage-eaters.
Yes, quite unlike.
Apart from the Belgians, whose rule in the Congo was so disgraceful even other colonial nations thought it was disgusting.
Most of the other colonial nations intended to exploit the locals. Not deliberately exterminate them.
 

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