French civilian trying to identify 1940 "Known unto God" grave

The study in French l linked above shows a pattern. Every time the Totenkopf took casualties it took revenge on civilians or POWs in the following hours or days.
Totenkopf division wasnt considered trained to Wehrmacht standards in 40. they were rightly looked on as asphalt soldiers. their continued overreaction resulting in numerous massacres bears out their emotional fragility, lack of discipline
 
...and so did Wehrmacht units against colonial troops on many occasions in the same period.


Oddly the claim that the Germans hated blacks going back to ww1 has glitches

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4(T)

LE
Totenkopf division wasnt considered trained to Wehrmacht standards in 40. they were rightly looked on as asphalt soldiers. their continued overreaction resulting in numerous massacres bears out their emotional fragility, lack of discipline

During the British "Frankforce" attack at Arras, Totenkopf abandoned their positions and legged it - leaving their Wehrmacht colleagues to bear the brunt of the fighting. Guderian wrote that "they showed signs of panic" - the only time he'd made a comment like that about German units during the campaign.
 
There are several Ancestry hits for 'Keller Scott' and many more for 'Leonard Keller Scott' - however, too many to even attempt to narrow it down.
Looks like the story is gathered a head of steam.
 
Thank you all. He was in civvies when arrested and had been betrayed due yo fear of reprisals. He was considered a spy..and may have been. We are following up various Len Kellers and also a Leon Keller born to German parents who had fled to UK. Thats an interesting one. CWGC wont exhume without a lot of evidence and famimy dna, hence search for descendants.
 
I may be missing something here, but if he was buried as a 'known unto God' casualty, oughtn't the chap's name appear on the CWGC database as being commemorated on a memorial somewhere?

The database isn't shy in recording that the exact date of death is unknown (for instance, Pte Thomas Babbington, 1 Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, is recorded as having died between 10 May 1940 and 26th April 1941; he's commemorated on the Dunkirk Memorial).

A quick search doesn't seem to suggest anyone with the name Keller or Scott who fits the timeframe properly (I looked at some variants like McKellar and Kellar). I agree with the suspicion that this was written down by a French speaker who may well have misheard the name and/or attempted to write it down phonetically, only to be baffled by the accent (which could've been Northumbrian or Norfolk if the chap came from one of the Divisional pioneer battalions, the RA, etc, etc.
 
Totenkopf division wasnt considered trained to Wehrmacht standards in 40. they were rightly looked on as asphalt soldiers. their continued overreaction resulting in numerous massacres bears out their emotional fragility, lack of discipline
As I pointed out, all of the Waffen-SS formations committed war crimes - Totenkopf at Le Paradis, LSSAH just down the road at Wormhoudt. They did it in Poland, they did it in France - it was the norm for them, that one formation weren't outliers.

"Emotional fragility" my arse - they were murderous thugs, doing it deliberately and in cold blood, who started as they meant to go on, and kept doing it for the rest of the war (e.g. Malmedy).
 
As I pointed out, all of the Waffen-SS formations committed war crimes - Totenkopf at Le Paradis, LSSAH just down the road at Wormhoudt. They did it in Poland, they did it in France - it was the norm for them, that one formation weren't outliers.

"Emotional fragility" my arse - they were murderous thugs, doing it deliberately and in cold blood, who started as they meant to go on, and kept doing it for the rest of the war (e.g. Malmedy).
Stop soiling you knickers son, by Emotional fragility I mean their inability to adjust to casualties like most combat soldiers do and immediately start killing POW's and civvies. Totenkopf especially seemed to not be able to adjust
 
As I pointed out, all of the Waffen-SS formations committed war crimes - Totenkopf at Le Paradis, LSSAH just down the road at Wormhoudt. They did it in Poland, they did it in France - it was the norm for them, that one formation weren't outliers.

"Emotional fragility" my arse - they were murderous thugs, doing it deliberately and in cold blood, who started as they meant to go on, and kept doing it for the rest of the war (e.g. Malmedy).
Bollocks
 
Which part - that pretty much every Waffen-SS formation committed war crimes, from 1939 onwards? Or that they were a bunch of thugs whose greatest abilities* lay in murdering the unarmed?

* Because after 1942, once the Allies had a chance to catch up, they got beaten on every front, by every opponent.
 
Stop soiling you knickers son, by Emotional fragility I mean their inability to adjust to casualties like most combat soldiers do and immediately start killing POW's and civvies. Totenkopf especially seemed to not be able to adjust
Except they were happy to murder POWs and civvies even when they hadn't taken casualties. Even happy to do some torture before they murdered their victims (Wereth 11).

These weren't just "isolated incidents by out-of-control NCOs and soldiers", the war crimes were directed by Divisional, Regimental, and Battalion Commanders. See Peiper's "no quarter" order that resulted in Malmedy, Meyer's murders at his Div HQ in Ardenne Abbey.

It was widespread, it was frequent, it was directed from all levels of command, it wasn't prosecuted by the SS hierarchy; so it seems fair to regard it as "business as usual" rather than "emotional fragility". They were happy to do it, because that's just how they thought - "We're the master race, we can do whatever we want, and we like it".
 
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Looks like the story is gathered a head of steam.
Grampian on line: 'Highlander killed by Nazis'. Not killed by Germans then?
 
Except they were happy to murder POWs and civvies even when they hadn't taken casualties. Even happy to do some torture before they murdered their victims (Wereth 11).

These weren't just "isolated incidents by out-of-control NCOs and soldiers", the war crimes were directed by Divisional, Regimental, and Battalion Commanders. See Peiper's "no quarter" order that resulted in Malmedy, Meyer's murders at his Div HQ in Ardenne Abbey.

It was widespread, it was frequent, it was directed from all levels of command, it wasn't prosecuted by the SS hierarchy; so it seems fair to regard it as "business as usual" rather than "emotional fragility". They were happy to do it, because that's just how they thought - "We're the master race, we can do whatever we want, and we like it".
My god but you are obtuse

By the way Peipers no quarters order? show us a copy

Major Hal McCown would be interested since he and his men were captured by Peipers unit and unharmed.

By the way the subject was 1940 not 1944
 
Grampian on line: 'Highlander killed by Nazis'. Not killed by Germans then?

You can stop the outrage bus. From Grampian Online (my bold):

'However, one brave soldier miraculously evaded capture and was taken in by a local French family who hid him from the occupying German forces.

'Recalling the tale his late father told him, Monsieur Prieur said: "A soldier from the 51st Highland Division was hidden by a local family in the village.

"They bonded, and the family learned that he was a married man with a wife and two daughters waiting for him to return home.

"For several weeks, the soldier remained hidden, but regretfully he was eventually discovered by German troops and marched through the town to the municipal cemetery.

"After being forced to dig his own grave, he was positioned against the cemetery wall and shot."


 
Except they were happy to murder POWs and civvies even when they hadn't taken casualties. Even happy to do some torture before they murdered their victims (Wereth 11).

These weren't just "isolated incidents by out-of-control NCOs and soldiers", the war crimes were directed by Divisional, Regimental, and Battalion Commanders. See Peiper's "no quarter" order that resulted in Malmedy, Meyer's murders at his Div HQ in Ardenne Abbey.

It was widespread, it was frequent, it was directed from all levels of command, it wasn't prosecuted by the SS hierarchy; so it seems fair to regard it as "business as usual" rather than "emotional fragility". They were happy to do it, because that's just how they thought - "We're the master race, we can do whatever we want, and we like it".
the link to Meyer's trial is included. very interesting reading.
 
By the way Peipers no quarters order? show us a copy
That's why he wasn't prosecuted, not enough proof. Got an excuse for multiple murders in the grounds of Meyer's Divisional HQ?

Major Hal McCown would be interested since he and his men were captured by Peipers unit and unharmed.
That would be the US prisoners captured late in the battle, once it was obvious to Peiper that they were losing and he would likely be captured himself? I'd suggest that Malmedy and Wereth were proof of intention.

Isn't it interesting that the German troops were perfectly happy to carry out mass-murder when they were winning, but as soon as they realised that it was time to surrender, it was "no, we never did any of that, a big boy did it and ran away, we only did it because the Soviets were beastly and started first".

Multiple SS units and formations, committed war crimes across Poland in 1939 and France in 1940. Not because they were fragile, but because they thought they could get away with it.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
I find the number of Nazi/SS fanbois here quite disturbing. Some folks' moral compasses need recalibration on this kind of thing.
 
You can stop the outrage bus. From Grampian Online (my bold):

'However, one brave soldier miraculously evaded capture and was taken in by a local French family who hid him from the occupying German forces.

'Recalling the tale his late father told him, Monsieur Prieur said: "A soldier from the 51st Highland Division was hidden by a local family in the village.

"They bonded, and the family learned that he was a married man with a wife and two daughters waiting for him to return home.

"For several weeks, the soldier remained hidden, but regretfully he was eventually discovered by German troops and marched through the town to the municipal cemetery.

"After being forced to dig his own grave, he was positioned against the cemetery wall and shot."


Fairy Nuff (ish) but that's not what the link says. Mind you, it also says 'solider'.
 

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