Freemen. What's that all about, then?

Drivers_lag

On ROPS
On ROPs
#1
The title, pretty much.

Bobalon, what's that all about?

I've seen it on Youtube and the drill seems to be to ask coppers a series of bizarre questions based on some archaic law, fuddle statutes, acts, common law and criminal law and throw in some consent.

Do all this with a video camera pointed at the copper and it seems to confuse our size ten wearer greatly.

Can anyone shed any light?

And more amusingly, is it just a load of shit that doesn't actually work for the smartarrses involved?
 
#2
The title, pretty much.

Bobalon, what's that all about?

I've seen it on Youtube and the drill seems to be to ask coppers a series of bizarre questions based on some archaic law, fuddle statutes, acts, common law and criminal law and throw in some consent.

Do all this with a video camera pointed at the copper and it seems to confuse our size ten wearer greatly.

Can anyone shed any light?

And more amusingly, is it just a load of shit that doesn't actually work for the smartarrses involved?
A total load of rubbish.

Freeman on the land - RationalWiki

It is only one to two steps removed from the US Sovereign Citizen movement who seem to have confrontations with the FBI every now and again. Guess who wins?

The essence of it is to assert that you can opt out of a social contract, and that the UK law does not apply.

It is not at all confusing, if you were to perform like this on the street and come up with such an elaborate refusal to comply with lawful requests for identity or such like during the course of an inquiry....you would be arrested.

Whilst the philosophy of it is all terribly interesting, it is still nonsense. If you told a police officer "God gives me the right not to listen to you", you'd be equally nicked.

It was put a bit better here by this chap:

Freemen of the dangerous nonsense | UK Human Rights Blog

Sadly, in times of economic strife some people will cling to any lifeboat. I suspect the FOTL "legal advisors" don't do this for free, and with legal aid being restricted perhaps others will be tempted to try for the "get out of jail" card.

(Not often I stick up for lawyers, but people should get proper legal advice rather than go for these self-appointed "experts" who are about as legally qualified as Anjem Choudhary is when he sits as the "Chief Judge of the UK Sharia court"!)
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
I am a freeman of the City of London . therefore I can ply my trade within the city walls without paying a fine (levy) .
I can also herd my geese , sheep etc over the bridges in London and not pay the tolls Should I so wish , and be it so ordained should I be sentenceD to hang I may require a silken rope to be used. All I have to do is swear allegiance to her queenieness and support the magistrate in case of civil unrest . Well some of those no longer apply but you sign up and your fee goes to charity and you get a loverly wee certificate to put up on your wall. OH I can claim a fiver towards the cost of my wedding if its held in the City I BELIEVE THAT STILL APPLIES .

You would not thin i rerite this three times coz of CAPLOCKS !!!

Actually , the correct term is Entered into the Freedom of the city .
 
#4
I am a freeman of the City of London . therefore I can ply my trade within the city walls without paying a fine (levy) .
I can also herd my geese , sheep etc over the bridges in London and not pay the tolls Should I so wish , and be it so ordained should I be sentenceD to hang I may require a silken rope to be used. All I have to do is swear allegiance to her queenieness and support the magistrate in case of civil unrest . Well some of those no longer apply but you sign up and your fee goes to charity and you get a loverly wee certificate to put up on your wall. OH I can claim a fiver towards the cost of my wedding if its held in the City I BELIEVE THAT STILL APPLIES .

You would not thin i rerite this three times coz of CAPLOCKS !!!

Actually , the correct term is Entered into the Freedom of the city .

coo I think you've had more to drink tonight than I have!
 

Drivers_lag

On ROPS
On ROPs
#6
A total load of rubbish.

Freeman on the land - RationalWiki

It is only one to two steps removed from the US Sovereign Citizen movement who seem to have confrontations with the FBI every now and again. Guess who wins?

The essence of it is to assert that you can opt out of a social contract, and that the UK law does not apply.

It is not at all confusing, if you were to perform like this on the street and come up with such an elaborate refusal to comply with lawful requests for identity or such like during the course of an inquiry....you would be arrested.

Whilst the philosophy of it is all terribly interesting, it is still nonsense. If you told a police officer "God gives me the right not to listen to you", you'd be equally nicked.

It was put a bit better here by this chap:

Freemen of the dangerous nonsense | UK Human Rights Blog

Sadly, in times of economic strife some people will cling to any lifeboat. I suspect the FOTL "legal advisors" don't do this for free, and with legal aid being restricted perhaps others will be tempted to try for the "get out of jail" card.

(Not often I stick up for lawyers, but people should get proper legal advice rather than go for these self-appointed "experts" who are about as legally qualified as Anjem Choudhary is when he sits as the "Chief Judge of the UK Sharia court"!)
There you go, yeah.. that's one.

Am I obliged to identify myself if I'm minding my own business and I'm asked for ID? My mate says yes, you are. But coppers with a video camera pointed at them all of a sudden aren't so sure.

What's the crack?
 
#8
If you're minding your own business it's unlikely a copper will ask for ID. If you are asked it's because he's got an interest in you so perhaps you're not minding your own business at all. Co-operate at the scene or be arrested and co-operate at the nick, up to you.
 

Drivers_lag

On ROPS
On ROPs
#10
If you're minding your own business it's unlikely a copper will ask for ID. If you are asked it's because he's got an interest in you so perhaps you're not minding your own business at all. Co-operate at the scene or be arrested and co-operate at the nick, up to you.
Because he has an interest in you, doesn't mean he has a reasonable suspicion that you are wrong doing...for example, if I was taking photos outside a school... there could be any number of reasons I was doing so. One of those might be sinister.

It's reasonable to ask folk we pay to uphold the law to know it, is it not?

For some reason, I've taken an interest in this on youtube at the moment. We (rightly) generally just assume a bobby is right. If he asks for ID we just hand it over as a consent thing. But there's a little fad there if you look for it that like to challenge police and the results are quite interesting. Naturally, they only publish their 'victories' but nontheless, it's sparked my interest. And I assume it would pique the interest of more professional coppers, even if only to be one step ahead of such people.
 
#11
There you go, yeah.. that's one.

Am I obliged to identify myself if I'm minding my own business and I'm asked for ID? My mate says yes, you are. But coppers with a video camera pointed at them all of a sudden aren't so sure.

What's the crack?
I think several got in before me.

Given the lack of police on the streets now (certainly on my parish), the chances of random innocent passers-by being accosted by curious police is pretty low. The peelers are far more interested in getting to the next call.

But the question asked of me many times when video cameras are pointed at me ("What have you got to hide?") is a double edged sword really, isn't it?

Funny how many people who fancy themselves as champions of Magna Carta are (for example) actually merely feck wits who think the Road Traffic Act applies merely to the poor.

(Can't stand dealing with wealthy people who won't be told they've done something dangerous and illegal. Give me a nice professional criminal who knows the score any day. Which is another thing I have against FOTL. Amateurs.)
 
#12
Because he has an interest in you, doesn't mean he has a reasonable suspicion that you are wrong doing...for example, if I was taking photos outside a school... there could be any number of reasons I was doing so. One of those might be sinister.

It's reasonable to ask folk we pay to uphold the law to know it, is it not?

For some reason, I've taken an interest in this on youtube at the moment. We (rightly) generally just assume a bobby is right. If he asks for ID we just hand it over as a consent thing. But there's a little fad there if you look for it that like to challenge police and the results are quite interesting. Naturally, they only publish their 'victories' but nontheless, it's sparked my interest. And I assume it would pique the interest of more professional coppers, even if only to be one step ahead of such people.
Yes it does, he will have no interest if he doesn't suspect you of anything, if he has an interest he does. Deal with it on the spot or be nicked and deal with it at the station, it's up to you.

Creating an event solely to test this crackpot theory deserves arrest.
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#13
If you want a real laugh go to YouTube and type in Freeman of the Land. There are some very sad people out there.
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
i think i didnt understand this and got the wrong end of the stick .
 

Drivers_lag

On ROPS
On ROPs
#15
Yes it does, he will have no interest if he doesn't suspect you of anything, if he has an interest he does. Deal with it on the spot or be nicked and deal with it at the station, it's up to you.

Creating an event solely to test this crackpot theory deserves arrest.

[video=youtube;NdLnVSjCwWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=NdLnVSjCwWI&NR=1[/video]

Like this you mean?
 
#16
Freemen put themselves outside of the law because it is "contractual" and they did not sign up to it?
Can I therefore help myself to their kit, with appropriate violence if necessary?
Who would they complain to?
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#17
A question that they fail to answer. And I bet they use the NHS, first to call 999 if they're house is on fire or cry when they don't get a pension from the evil government

sad losers.
 
J

Joshua Slocum

Guest
#19
[video=youtube;NdLnVSjCwWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=NdLnVSjCwWI&NR=1[/video]

Like this you mean?
the reason I dont want to give my details is !!!!!
cos I wear a hat made of baking foil at night and paper my walls in baco foil
 

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