Free trade - is it still a British ideal?

[stacker1]

I have no idea. Spring lamb would indicate preferred slaughter times but i'm not a butcher.

You agree though, there is lots of foreign meat? Which is strange as you seem to be indicating the majority of the British public like to buy British.

 

[stacker1]

Well no...

We used to have fresh local milk delivered in recyclable bottles by electric vehicles.

But the EU had a milk lake.

I'm sure you can figure the rest out.

That people stopped supporting British milk and bought whatever the supermarkets sold?

 

[S11Blade]

You agree though, there is lots of foreign meat? Which is strange as you seem to be indicating the majority of the British public like to buy British.

The vast majority of meat is british. Nz out of season lamb and soon to be gone irish beef being the main exceptions

 

[Flight]

That people stopped supporting British milk and bought whatever the supermarkets sold?

I don't believe you are that naive.

The common agricultural policy is well known surely?

 

[Yokel]

I buy potatoes because I want potatoes, why would I care where they come from (if they are broadly the same)?

Dairy farmers have been going to the wall for years because people want milk, they dont give a shit where it comes from, thats why you rarely see a milkman these days, people would rather save a few pence buying it the supermarkets.

Yet the Red Tractor symbol adds value, as people know where food has been produced, and can be sure of safety and other standards. Being British produced also cuts down on the Carbon footprint.

Traceable, safe and farmed with care | Red Tractor

 

[stacker1]

The vast majority of meat is british. Nz out of season lamb and soon to be gone irish beef being the main exceptions

Vast majority but not all? Its the cost that drives things. Does no food (except that out of season or not normally grown in the UK) ever get sold in the UK?

 

[stacker1]

Yet the Red Tractor symbol adds value, as people know where food has been produced, and can be sure of safety and other standards. Being British produced also cuts down on the Carbon footprint.

Traceable, safe and farmed with care | Red Tractor

And thats top of the list of priorities for most people.

 

[stacker1]

I don't believe you are that naive.

The common agricultural policy is well known surely?

And whats that got to do with people chinning off their local milkman?

 

[S11Blade]

Vast majority but not all? Its the cost that drives things. Does no food (except that out of season or not normally grown in the UK) ever get sold in the UK?

Tbh not really sure with where you are trying to go with this other than Brotherton lad style arguing for the sake of arguing. So i'm out.

 

[stacker1]

Tbh not really sure with where you are trying to go with this other than Brotherton lad style arguing for the sake of arguing. So i'm out.

I'll be clear, the vast majority of the British public dont give a **** about buying British, they want cheap prices, possibly good quality, neither of which is guaranteed by buying British.

 

[S11Blade]

I'll be clear, the vast majority of the British public dont give a **** about buying British, they want cheap prices, possibly good quality, neither of which is guaranteed by buying British.

And all the evidence from people who's job it is to sell things to the British public suggests you are wrong.

We will agree to disagree.

 

[stacker1]

And all the evidence from people who's job it is to sell things to the British public suggests you are wrong.

We will agree to disagree.

Except for the fact they sell literally billions of pounds of foreign products.
Did you consider they sell the British because its the cheapest?

 

[S11Blade]

Except for the fact they sell literally billions of pounds of foreign products.
Did you consider they sell the British because its the cheapest?

As I say, this conversation is over. Goodnight.

 

[beardyProf]

Depends on shit the country is run. However don't confuse paying for loss making industries with having tariffs.

The only reason to have tariffs is to protect loss making industries. If British farmers can make a profit and sell against foreign imports without tariffs, then they are a viable industry. If we have to apply tariffs to allow them to compete then they are a loss making industry. You can avoid the tariffs by just subsidising the farmers from taxation, but either way you the tax payer/consumer are paying to keep them in work. Of course you could do down the mining coal route, pay the miners an unreasonably high wage to dig coal at an uneconomic price, then force the monopolistic electricity board to burn said coal to generate electricity, then charge the consumer for the electricity and tax gas to ensure people had to use it, but with food this would mean a compulsory Buy British scheme which would only work with ration coupons and I think that's a step too far even for Corbyn and his loonies.

 

[beardyProf]

Seems quite simple to me that free trade on a reciprocal basis only really works between broadly equal economies, otherwise it is bound to become an exercise in redistribution of wealth

Now, I’m not saying that’s necessarily a bad thing, but we have to be clear whether or not that is the aim.

The only theoretical way to avoid redistribution of wealth is to have a completely controlled command economy like the old Soviet one. We all know what that produced, food shortages and funnily the redistribution of wealth to the people running the command economy. What is the difference between me distributing my wealth to farmer A for my food or to farmer B just because farmer B is British. Economically none, a farmer gets money for producing food, makes a profit so continues producing food. If you're a xenophobic nationalist then of course it's important not to give money to foreigners, which is the EUs position as long as you consider everyone in the EU to be one nation and not foreign, but you must realise this comes at a price.
If the farmer you pay for food is efficient you pay less for food, giving you more money left to spend on other things, say computer games, which the UK is good at producing [or so my nephew tells me as he buys a new bigger house]. If you are forced to pay taxes to subsidise inefficient farmers, or the price of food is artificially raised by tariffs on cheap imports you have less spare money to buy computer games so the computer games industry goes bust, and you lead a more miserable life, in the extreme working to do nothing but put bread on the table.

 

[Deleted 158059]

Well even the widely discredited Prof. Patrick Minford of poll tax fame acknowledges that under a 'free trade' model agriculture and manufacturing will be wiped out in the UK.

The devastating future for Welsh manufacturing predicted by a Brexit economist

Tory MP Rory Stewart asked the economist if he was talking about the “collapse of the entire UK car industry” and the “wiping out of the manufacturing industry”.

According to the transcript of the committee, Mr Minford said: “It is perfectly true that if you remove protection of the sort that has been given particularly to the car industry and other manufacturing industries inside the protective wall, you will have a change in the situation facing that industry, and you are going to have to run it down.

"It will be in your interests to do it, just as in the same way we ran down the coal and steel industries.

“These things happen as evolution takes place in your economy. In the long run they are in your interest, but of course you have to deal with the compensation problems along the route.”

Brexit: NFU criticises proposals for ‘tariff-free trade at all costs’

The reports come after the publication of a comprehensive review by the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute which looked at possible trade policy scenarios post-Brexit.

It showed that in the case of unilateral trade liberalisation, where all tariffs on food imports are abolished, the price, volume and value of all British agricultural commodities would fall significantly, with prices for beef falling by 45% and sheep by 29%.

Mr Raymond continued: “These outcomes would clearly have a devastating effect on British farming and, by extension, the British countryside, the rural economy and our ability to feed ourselves in an increasingly volatile world.

“When it comes to trade policy after Brexit, the interests of the British public and of British farmers are best served through maintaining a deep trading relationship with the EU.

“Negotiating subsequent trade deals with countries elsewhere in the world should then be undertaken with due care and attention to ensure domestic industries are not unfairly undermined while opening up new opportunities for exporters abroad.

“In these uncertain times, and given the high levels of interest the public has in the way their food is produced and the impact it has on animal welfare and the environment, it is clear that the value of a thriving British farming sector to the British public far outstrips the narrow arguments for cheaper imports from overseas.”

One has to wonder whether the welfare burden of an extra million or 2 unemployed would be worth the undefined benefits

 

[Graculus]

I suspect you might benefit from reading up on comparative advantage.

Importing more cheaply can often free up resources for higher value activities.

And more generally anyone who fears competition is a cuck.

He gets stuff for nowt and turns a fine profit on it. You're lecturing him on competitive advantage?

 

[Graculus]

The vast majority of meat is british. Nz out of season lamb and soon to be gone irish beef being the main exceptions

To be replaced by cheaper, hormone laden and chlorine washed products. Agro industry, gotta love it. MAGA.

 

[smartascarrots]

To be replaced by cheaper, hormone laden and chlorine washed products. Agro industry, gotta love it. MAGA.

Plus whatever other QPQs we have to make to sign trade deals with all those countries queueing up to fleece us in our hour of need.

 

[UORMan]

I always try to buy British Fruit and Veg, provided it is of good quality, and less than 15% more than others available.

When we joined the EU, the New Zealand Lamb market took a massive hit and so the government stepped in with subsidies. After a few years they decided to remove the subsidies and those that were efficient, survived and thrived. Those that weren't went to the wall. I know they also diversified into dairy and are now one of the most efficient areas of the economy.