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Free the police and save billions

#2
Good article, read it yesterday, sadly, cue loads of people saying "It's just not possible to do it like this in the UK". Well, have they tried it yet - because as far as I'm concerned, Dixon of Dock Green here may just about be right.

I am also all for elected police commissioners, and locally funded police forces. How else can we influence where the Plod direct most of their attention, instead of Whitehall?
 
#3
I am also all for elected police commissioners, and locally funded police forces. How else can we influence where the Plod direct most of their attention, instead of Whitehall?
Yeah. saw some idiot wibbling on about it on the BBC this morning how it will undermine the Police if we have politically minded head Pols… Funny, the rest for the world seem to find it a great idea.

Vote for me! More speed cameras, more diversity co-ordinators and less Police keeping you safe in your houses!

Vote for me! Stuff the speed cameras and nut cutlet eating bi-transexual midget co-ordinators, I'll put all the Police on the streets harrasing criminals.

Not hard, is it? Unless you are a guardianista who thinks the primary purpose of the Police is to enforce their social engineering agenda.
 
#5
Agreed entirely. The previous government's politicisation of the police, and other organisations, for their own ends must be unravelled and unravelled pronto.

How many Forces should there be? Should these Forces be part of a National Force?

I think there should be only nine Forces:

Metropolitan; Scotland; Wales; Northern Ireland; North; Central; South; Counter Terrorist and British Transport.

I think that should be part of a National Police Force, with a 'minimalist' Headquarters in the geographical centre of the nation and a 'Tac' HQ in Whitehall.
 
#6
I am also all for elected police commissioners, and locally funded police forces. How else can we influence where the Plod direct most of their attention, instead of Whitehall?
I'm all for elected Police commisioners, we are long overdue Police that are accountable to the people they serve. Us.
Elected commisioners would have meant North Wales could have got rid of the highly dubious and inept Brunstrom a lot sooner.
It might also see ACPO getting their just deserts and kicked into the long grass.
 
#7
It appears that ACPO(a private limited company!!) will see most of their 'powers' taken away.They will then concentrate on 'police leadership',apparently.Gone may be the days when 350+ ACPO officers decide on which laws shall be enforced and how.The NPIA will also be abolished.That agency was supposed to 'improve' the police.
 
#8
It appears that ACPO(a private limited company!!) will see most of their 'powers' taken away.They will then concentrate on 'police leadership',apparently.Gone may be the days when 350+ ACPO officers decide on which laws shall be enforced and how.The NPIA will also be abolished.That agency was supposed to 'improve' the police.
How sad. ACPO is one of the less savoury elements of the British justice system, personally I will be very pleased to see their influence diminished.
 
#10
"Semper_flexibilis" quote : "Stuff the speed cameras and nut cutlet eating bi-transexual midget co-ordinators, I'll put all the Police on the streets harrasing criminals.

Not hard, is it? Unless you are a guardianista who thinks the primary purpose of the Police is to enforce their social engineering agenda"

Very true, return the Police to being a FORCE, there to protect the public and ENFORCE the law, irrespective of race, colour or creed! Not be be an extension of the useless "Social Services"!
 
#11
Agreed entirely. The previous government's politicisation of the police, and other organisations, for their own ends must be unravelled and unravelled pronto.

How many Forces should there be? Should these Forces be part of a National Force?

I think there should be only nine Forces:

Metropolitan; Scotland; Wales; Northern Ireland; North; Central; South; Counter Terrorist and British Transport.


I think that should be part of a National Police Force, with a 'minimalist' Headquarters in the geographical centre of the nation and a 'Tac' HQ in Whitehall.
I disagree. I'm perfectly happy with the idea of county specific Constabularies.
Policing whould be focussed on the needs of the locality and not run on a one size fits all basis. Combined with elected Police Commisioners that should go a long way toward re-asserting the principal that the Police should serve the community
 
#12
On first glance Theresa May's reform plans appear to borrow much from the Canadian approach... except that reform of CPS, or setting the police free of the CPS doesn't seem to be on the cards. I can't help but think an opportunity is being missed, electing a police commisioner is one thing, but if their officers are still relying on external parties (i.e. the CPS) for judgement calls on whether to prosecute or not then i can't see how electing some figure-head is going to make the blindest bit of difference. Thoughts?
 
#13
My brother is a traffic officer, in South Yorks, and he is constantly saying how difficult his job is due to excess paperwork, less bobbies on the beat and red tape.

Whilst the Canadian model is effective in both cost and efficiency try implementing it in the UK.

there are several things that will hamper the implementation of this:

1) the UK Justice system - It is not geared in the same why the US or Canadian system is, and needs massive overhauling.
Can you imagine locking up a suspect on remand for say GBH, and the suspect not having had full access to his lawyer?
Then said suspect having to wait a week or 10 (current court system!) before he can plead his case and give his evidence to a magistrate/judge?

2) The Human Rights Law, this would be probably the 2nd biggest stumbling block we as a nation would face using the canadian/US system

3) Plod doing a fitness test annually? Give me a break, many of them struggle to lift a coffee and a doughnut, let alone completing a BFT style test

4) ACPO - enough said!

and the list goes on.

I would love this system in the UK, more cops on the beat, more crims off the streets, however, the reality is this: It would take 10 years to overhaul the Legal system, the police forces, the jails, it will never happen unless we come out of Europe and become independant from Brussels.
 
#14
i can't see how electing some figure-head is going to make the blindest bit of difference. Thoughts?
You might be right, or wrong.

If the elected figurehead is truly independent, like the elected sheriffs in America, then he will make a difference.

Consider what happened in Nottingham just after the 7/7 terrorist bombings. The Chief Constable was a political appointee who ticked all the right boxes. He had been assessed as "totally unfit" to do his job. The murder rate, fuelled by drug dealers expanding out of London, was soaring. The murder squad was "not fit for purpose". A more junior officer from Manchester was appointed to "assist" him, effectively to do the job that the Chief Constable couldn't manage.

At this point, Chiefy decided that his Muslim community was at risk of reprisals. He deployed coppers on unlimited overtime to Muslim areas and mosques. All of his uniformed officers were issued with a green ribbon to show solidarity with Muslims, after several of them had just murdered 56 people and injured 700.

The politically correct stunt saved his job. Jacqui Smith, then Home Secretary, praised him for his commitment to diversity. It took a prolonged campaign of outrage from the citizens of Nottingham to get him sacked. An independent police chief would have sacked the Chief Constable as soon as his fitness report came in. His job would be on the line if he didn't.

The other, and I think more likely, option is that elected police chiefs will be overtly politicised from the start. You'll get the Labour candidate and the Tory candidate for "Sheriff" and who gets elected will be dependent on which part of the country the election is being held in, rather than who can do the best job. I'd bet most of them will be local councillors and, in most places, they'll be in a job for life, no matter how bad crime gets.

The end result will be police that are politicised at a local level rather than a national level. As in London under Ian Blair's stewardship, you'll have police cars driving around with "Vote Labour" posters in the windows and corrupt, useless tw@ts like Ali Dizaei appointed to head up forces.

I fear we may end up back in the Pre "Operation Countryman" days of the 60s and early 70s. Police corruption and incompetence was endemic and organised crime flourished.
 
#15
I would have you know that I am more than able to quaff doughnut AND coffee simultaneously. I accept it's a skill acquired through years of practice. What really irritates me is when those bloody 999 calls come in and demand we attend IN PERSON. Don't these people appreciate how quickly your coffee goes cold, and, even worse, your dough nut goes stale. The bloody cheek of it I tell you.
 
#16
I would have you know that I am more than able to quaff doughnut AND coffee simultaneously. I accept it's a skill acquired through years of practice. What really irritates me is when those bloody 999 calls come in and demand we attend IN PERSON. Don't these people appreciate how quickly your coffee goes cold, and, even worse, your dough nut goes stale. The bloody cheek of it I tell you.
Indeed so, but would it not be more efficient and save literally tens of pounds to the country, if the CPS were allowed to share your coffee, instead of having to have their own?

I have yet to see any sensible reason tor the CPS to exist. If too high a proportion of cases get licked out of court, simply award costs back against the police budget until their conviction rate rises through better case production. How much custody time is used whilst CPS are allowed always to finish their hot coffee and doughnuts whilst they make decisions?

And as to "public interest" matters, I would personally trust some custody sergeant with some real experience of the world to make them.
 
#17
Very true, return the Police to being a FORCE, there to protect the public and ENFORCE the law, irrespective of race, colour or creed! Not be be an extension of the useless "Social Services"!
Is that enforce ALL laws or just those that people think should be enforced? The fundemental issue at the moment is that too many people think they don't need to comply with minor laws because they are generally otherwise law abiding. Speeding, driving whilst on the phone, seatbelts, littering, all minor but still laws.

Police have discretion, well they should have in theory, but isn't it time for the level of acceptability, in most people's eyes, to be lowered as it was in New York with the Broken Windows ethos?

Or, if you do it and get caught, then take it on the chin and stop blaming the Plod, who 'enforce the laws'
 
#18
Every home should have a coffee machine and doughnut maker, then, when you're burgled, just switch them on and make sure you tell the attending bobbies that they're warming up nicely and they'll be round in a breath.
Unless it's your coffee maker and doughnut machine that have been nicked of course.


Bugger, there's a flaw in my plan.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Every home should have a coffee machine and doughnut maker, then, when you're burgled, just switch them on and make sure you tell the attending bobbies that they're warming up nicely and they'll be round in a breath.
Unless it's your coffee maker and doughnut machine that have been nicked of course.


Bugger, there's a flaw in my plan.
If every home had a coffee maker and doughnut machine there'd be no point in nicking them, would there? Who'd buy it?
 
#20
Is that enforce ALL laws or just those that people think should be enforced? The fundemental issue at the moment is that too many people think they don't need to comply with minor laws because they are generally otherwise law abiding. Speeding, driving whilst on the phone, seatbelts, littering, all minor but still laws.

Police have discretion, well they should have in theory, but isn't it time for the level of acceptability, in most people's eyes, to be lowered as it was in New York with the Broken Windows ethos?

Or, if you do it and get caught, then take it on the chin and stop blaming the Plod, who 'enforce the laws'
But do we need these laws - surely driving on the phone could be covered by something along the lines of "Driving without due care and attention"?

The main problem for most people who are, as you say, otherwise law abiding is that there are so many ways to easily break any of the thousands of petty new laws brought in over the past 13 years that we have effectively been criminalised to the point that we will be more prepared to break the law if we disagree with it or see it as pointless.

If I am driving without a seatbelt, who am I endangering apart from myself?

Tubs
 

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