Frances Mosque Surveillance Program

#1
From Jamestown:
...
The number of established Salafi mosques in France of concern to authorities is statistically low (Le Nouvel Observateur, February 2, 2006). In 2006, then-director of the RG, Pascal Mailhos, estimated that 80 out of the 1,685 mosques and places of worship in France were of concern to his services (4.7% of the total number). Mailhos further indicated that 40 of those 80 mosques were "under constant pressure" from radical Islamist networks (2.3% of the total). He also noted that half of those were resisting radicals' pressures, but that half had fallen into the hands of radical imams (1.1% of the total number) (Spyworld, November 24, 2005). It is also worth noting that religious practice is low among French Muslims. According to El Watan, only 10% of an estimated five million French Muslims attend a mosque regularly (El Watan, December 27, 2004). However, because any one of these mosques could breed or protect a terrorist network, French intelligence services consider each and every one of these radical mosques a potential threat.
...
Despite increased surveillance and a repressive legislative arsenal adequate to suppress immediate threats, religious extremism continues to progress. First, in poor suburban areas, young Muslim males in a precarious social situation can fall prey to a new brand of radical imams who can arouse their anger and stir them into violent and nihilistic actions. According to Eric Denécée, senior researcher at the Centre Français de Recherche sur le Renseignement, these imams are often foreigners and reside in France illegally; they are not integrated into the social fabric; they reject the French social contract; and they are not fluent in French [3]. These imams preach their own brand of radical Islam based on the "systematic rejection of French secularism, anti-French racism and obsessive anti-Semitism" [4].
...
The monitoring of mosques is designed to identify individuals who may become terrorists and engage in violent actions against French state interests or against the French population. It is conceived as a preventive measure designed to either identify and neutralize individuals who might become terrorists, or to suppress the ideology susceptible to motivate those individuals to pursue violent action. Although such monitoring may be necessary as a means to prevent terrorist actions, it is not currently leveraged to support a widespread effort to counter the radical violent Salafi brand of Islam. Suppression and repression has been a successful strategy for the past 10 years, keeping France free of terrorist attacks amid mounting threats. Nevertheless, it is not a strategy against a violent ideology that uses whatever channel is available to make itself available to those pre-disposed to find it. The constant monitoring of radical preachers should be used to inform a solid, coherent, well-argued alternative discourse to a violent, intolerant brand of Salafi ideology.
The French have been alert to the Salafi threat since the early 90s and have suffered only one wave of attack. They must be doing something right.
 
#2
Was'nt it the French who coined the name "Londistan" because they thought we were far too soft on Muslim extremists living in the UK?
 
#3
Sounds like a good plan.

If the Mosques can't police themselves and the people who push their fanatical agenda in the name of their religeon, the country they are in needs to safeguard it's security by helping them to remember whos soil they are on.


No doubt if we tried the same game here, there would be uproar.......until the next exploding wastecoat takes out a city centre.
 
#4
Despite increased surveillance and a repressive legislative arsenal adequate to suppress immediate threats, religious extremism continues to progress.
Because we all know how well surveillance and repression works! Is it just me, or have we learned absolutely FCUK ALL from history?

France hasn't been attacked much because they're not an immediate threat against the extremists the way the UK is.
 
#5
Werewolf said:
Was'nt it the French who coined the name "Londistan" because they thought we were far too soft on Muslim extremists living in the UK?
And they were right, we refused to extradite a convicted Islamic terrorist to France for over ten years because - drum roll - his human rights may be threatened, in France............so he spent ten years on benifits, until 7/7 then within 12 hours he was sweating in a Parisian basement.

I'll slag the Frogs as much as the next man but nobody can ever say that they are soft on terror or apply a less than robust approach to law enforcement, while we have serious fundamental problems.
 
#6
armchair_jihad said:
Werewolf said:
Was'nt it the French who coined the name "Londistan" because they thought we were far too soft on Muslim extremists living in the UK?
And they were right, we refused to extradite a convicted Islamic terrorist to France for over ten years because - drum roll - his human rights may be threatened, in France............so he spent ten years on benifits, until 7/7 then within 12 hours he was sweating in a Parisian basement.

I'll slag the Frogs as much as the next man but nobody can ever say that they are soft on terror or apply a less than robust approach to law enforcement, while we have serious fundamental problems.
Quite right the french can be hard sometimes. remember Algeria in the 60's the frogs sorted that out with the legion, was bloody but effective shame De Gaulle gave it back....
 
#7
tommy_cooker said:
armchair_jihad said:
Werewolf said:
Was'nt it the French who coined the name "Londistan" because they thought we were far too soft on Muslim extremists living in the UK?
And they were right, we refused to extradite a convicted Islamic terrorist to France for over ten years because - drum roll - his human rights may be threatened, in France............so he spent ten years on benifits, until 7/7 then within 12 hours he was sweating in a Parisian basement.

I'll slag the Frogs as much as the next man but nobody can ever say that they are soft on terror or apply a less than robust approach to law enforcement, while we have serious fundamental problems.
Quite right the french can be hard sometimes. remember Algeria in the 60's the frogs sorted that out with the legion, was bloody but effective shame De Gaulle gave it back....
Seconded. For all I hate the relentless advance of the European Superstate, I have to admit, they have got one or two good ideas...
 
#8
Werewolf said:
tommy_cooker said:
armchair_jihad said:
Werewolf said:
Was'nt it the French who coined the name "Londistan" because they thought we were far too soft on Muslim extremists living in the UK?
And they were right, we refused to extradite a convicted Islamic terrorist to France for over ten years because - drum roll - his human rights may be threatened, in France............so he spent ten years on benifits, until 7/7 then within 12 hours he was sweating in a Parisian basement.

I'll slag the Frogs as much as the next man but nobody can ever say that they are soft on terror or apply a less than robust approach to law enforcement, while we have serious fundamental problems.
Quite right the french can be hard sometimes. remember Algeria in the 60's the frogs sorted that out with the legion, was bloody but effective shame De Gaulle gave it back....
Seconded. For all I hate the relentless advance of the European Superstate, I have to admit, they have got one or two good ideas...
yeh i mean lets face it where do all of these people come from before coming here..chunnel and France of course they have even worse problems but at least they're taking a hard line approach which seems to be working.
 
#9
Oh_Bollox said:
Despite increased surveillance and a repressive legislative arsenal adequate to suppress immediate threats, religious extremism continues to progress.
Because we all know how well surveillance and repression works! Is it just me, or have we learned absolutely FCUK ALL from history?

France hasn't been attacked much because they're not an immediate threat against the extremists the way the UK is.
Your solution would be what?
 
#10
Oh_Bollox said:
Despite increased surveillance and a repressive legislative arsenal adequate to suppress immediate threats, religious extremism continues to progress.
Because we all know how well surveillance and repression works! Is it just me, or have we learned absolutely FCUK ALL from history?

France hasn't been attacked much because they're not an immediate threat against the extremists the way the UK is.
Obviously you have'nt - how many terrorist incidents happend in the USSR at the apex of Soviet power and control? Both the CIA and MI6 tried to set up insurgency groups within the Soviet Union, without sucess.

I'm not suggesting we set up a British version of the KGB(although somedays I'm fcuking tempted)but fighting these people with one hand tied behind our backs is a recipe for dead civilians. We need to find a balance.
 
#11
Oh_Bollox said:
...France hasn't been attacked much because they're not an immediate threat against the extremists the way the UK is.
Where on earth did you get that strange idea? From this side of La Manche we have the impression that Les Rostbifs are unwittingly the Jihad's greatest allies.

Paris still insists London remains a safe haven for the Jihadi international. That Mr Tony's adventure in Iraq have greatly aided the Jihadi cause as they predicted it would back in 02. Paris is often rated by DC as it's most effective European intelligence partner in the GWOT, they are a decade ahead of the field here.

The French are a very devious, ruthless bunch and still deeply involved in their old possessions: Algeria, Lebanon and Syria. Algeria has the largest and probably most dangerous Jihadi group the GPSC. Lebanon has a growing Jihadi problem. Syria is a primary target for the Salafi, they have not forgotten Hama.

Recently:
First, both al-Qaeda and AQIM have placed France on their "hit list." Last September, al-Zawahiri called on the GSPC to strike France. In his speech accepting the pledge of allegiance from the GSPC, al-Zawahiri said: "This sacred union [between al-Qaeda and the GSPC] will spread fear in the hearts of the traitors and unbelievers of France" (Le Figaro, September 14, 2006). When Wadud announced the re-branding of the GSPC as AQIM, he also stated that France was the group's principal enemy. This statement of intent represented a departure from the group's predecessors. Both the GIA and the GSPC had threatened France in the 1990s and early 2000s. The GIA even hijacked an Air France plane in December 1994 to intimidate the French government into relinquishing its support to the government of Algiers. Both the GIA and the GSPC, however, made it their goal to unseat the ruling regime in Algiers and replace it with an Islamic government. For them, striking France was a way to weaken the government in Algiers. AQIM has apparently chosen to strike the far enemy, at least for the time being.

Second, French authorities have reported that GSPC support networks have strengthened during the past few years in France and Europe. In particular, they note that the GSPC has substantially reinforced its presence in Germany and Italy since 2003. As of 2007, French counter-terrorism authorities consider that several dozen networks, most of them close to the GSPC, are active in France. They also note that several of these cells have been implicated in recruiting volunteers for the Iraq jihad (Le Figaro, September 14, 2006). In addition, Spanish media recently reported that AQIM supporters are collecting funds and recruiting volunteers for training in North Africa (Aujourd'hui le Maroc, April 18).

Third, French authorities worry that those networks might gain a boost from two sources. In accordance with its national reconciliation plan, the Algerian government has begun to release thousands of Islamists and terrorists captured during the civil war of the 1990s. The GSPC's amir has called on them to join his movement. French authorities fear that some of these individuals who join AQIM after their release from prison may decide to leave Algeria and mount terrorist operations in France. The challenge will be to intercept them before they can accomplish their misdeeds. This might be all the more challenging since some of the Islamic militants imprisoned in France in the 1990s for their support and/or participation in the terrorist attacks of 1995-1996 and the failed plots of 1998 have or are about to be released. Once out of jail, they might reconstitute their own networks or join newer ones. Their past expertise and contacts will represent a capital that AQIM can tap into.
With a fast growing Muslim population an order of magnitude larger than Britain's France faces higher risk levels than the UK.

Understanding the threat Paris does so with a good deal more ruthless pragmatism and sangfroid. This is in stark contrast with the panicky shortsighted response that has come to typify headless chicken London.
 
#13
tommy_cooker said:
armchair_jihad said:
Werewolf said:
Was'nt it the French who coined the name "Londistan" because they thought we were far too soft on Muslim extremists living in the UK?
And they were right, we refused to extradite a convicted Islamic terrorist to France for over ten years because - drum roll - his human rights may be threatened, in France............so he spent ten years on benifits, until 7/7 then within 12 hours he was sweating in a Parisian basement.

I'll slag the Frogs as much as the next man but nobody can ever say that they are soft on terror or apply a less than robust approach to law enforcement, while we have serious fundamental problems.
Quite right the french can be hard sometimes. remember Algeria in the 60's the frogs sorted that out with the legion, was bloody but effective shame De Gaulle gave it back....
The French military who had just been duffed up by Vo Nguyen Giap fought that war with brilliance and savagery. The Algerians claim over a million died in their Revolutionary War.

De Gaulle gave up Frances African Department partly because given the demographics France would have had a majority Arab population by now.

The French Army was so pissed off it ran a large terrorist campaign, staged 22 assassination attempts against De Gaulle and came close to staging a coup a couple of times. The 1st Régiment Étranger Parachutiste revolted and got disbanded. Rather puts being pissed off with Mr Tony about Iraq in perspective.
 
#14
alib said:
Understanding the threat Paris does so with a good deal more ruthless pragmatism and sangfroid. This is in stark contrast with the panicky shortsighted response that has come to typify headless chicken London.
here bloody here
 

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