Fox Hunting

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imported_admin

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#1
The goverment research document is an excellent source of reasonably trustworthy info on this one.  

http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/finalreport.htm


Bad CO (anti) separates standard hunting (killing with dogs) from hunting with dogs, but killing by shooting.  Thereby maintaing that mainstream foxhunting is pointless as counts for a small number of foxes killed.

Good CO doesn't see the difference between the 2 dog hunting methods (accounting between for a large number of foxes killed).

Bad CO maintains fox not a serious pest in the first place.

Good CO (pro) surprised by small % of lamb / poultry deaths attributed to foxes and says that he's got a point there.

Good CO say that farmers tolerate use of land by hunts as it controls foxes for them.

Bad CO says hunting is a sport carried out for farmers by farmers and land use is therefore purely sporting self interest.

Bad CO say that farmers beleive the whole fox is pest thing because of deeply ingrained (wrong) beliefs.

Good CO reckons that farmers are rather more practical.

Neither can guess at the likely growth in fox population if hunting banned and therefore the likely growth in fox related deaths.

Not really thrashed out:  Does the 'selective' old foxes only claim for standard fox hunting hold any water if the percentage kiled by them is so small.  If you want to control the population surely pre breeding age is better anyway?

Both agree on serious effect on country social life and livelihood.

Get on your soap box!
 
E

error_unknown

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#2
Some good points and well made, however, as a former 'Highland Keeper' the realities of genuine 'vermin control' (including Foxes) is slightly different. The sight of a bunch of pi**ed up 'Toffs' on horses galloping up 3000 feet mountains, to chase a fox is one that I would pay to see!!. How to control the fox population, wait until Spring and locate the dens used by the Vixen, put a terrier, usually a lakeland/ Border cross, into the den. This causes the vixen to bolt, shoot her with a semi-auto shotgun, then gas the cubs with Cymag (Produces Hydrogen Cyanide Gas). The lie up for maybe 2-3 days with a rifle and shoot the Dog Fox as he brings in food. Also trips out during the night with a lamp and rifle, squeak like a rabbit in distress and aim for the illuminated eyes of the fox, hopefully, making a clean kill!!. Another useful method is to put a dead Deer out onto the hill, then set a ring of steel wire snares around the carcass, check the every day. In a typical year scratch 100-150 foxes. How many do the hunts actually kill?? I have friends who are Keepers in areas where Fox Hunting is popular and they are prevented from shooting or snaring foxes, in order that 'the Laird' can still have his days hunting. What price vermin control then?? There is no doubt that Foxes kill a lot of domestic fowl and game birds (Those are things like Pheasants and Grouse- not what you meet down town on a Saturday Night!!), but they actually prefer to eat Rabbits, which are, incidentally more of a pest than the foxes!!. It is worth while remembering that up to 20 years ago there were packs of Otter Hounds still used in the Country, that was subsequently made unlawful and no one really noticed!! Any way I will jump down off this box now and await the inevitable 'Flak'....Just for the record though, I am the product of 7 Generations of Fife Miners not a 'Countryman' by birth or heart. :)  
 
#3
No flack from this c/s..... I think that the pest control thing is a bit over done too.

I do however think that in the country the occasional hunt is much more of a social gathering for people that are spread over a wide area than anything practical. It can also be quite a spectical and managed properly could draw spectators and much needed funds to some areas.

As for the fox? Well in a country where the beating of men, women & children is common in the towns and cities (and no doubt in the country too) I feel that many of the people in the towns should sort their own affairs out before forcing their feelings on country folk. After all, the fox is doing what's natural, running away from preditorsjust as they have always done and just as their prey does from them. The fact that they are only rarely caught should point out that they are quite good at it.
 
#4
If the government is to ban Fox Hunting perhaps the fox could be replaced with Civil Servants thereby killing (sic) 2 birds with one stone
 
#5
Don't suspect that the President cares about this one iota, however once again he appeals to the great unclean masses, and panders to popularists.
What is next?  Fishing?

And hunting is not about killing foxes, it is about hacking about the countryside at mach one on a horse, which by all accounts is pretty good fun.  And if foxes get wasted, well are you really fussed?

Go and wash your dreadlocks out you weirdos and stay in the towns spreading communism!

Cat - pigeons.  Let's go!
 
#6
The attempts to ban foxhunting have got absolutely nothing to do with the well being of foxes but everything to do with misplaced class warfare. What the great unwashed, urban dole dwellers do not understand is that most hunts have the whole spectrum of socio-economic groups involved in the hunt. This includes the so called red jacketed toffs on horseback.

All the hunt sabs (and the weak Lab govt) want to do is to prevent the rural communities from continuing to enjoy life.

I wonder if any of those who seek to ban foxhunting have come up with an suitable alternative yet? Trapping is a fearsomely cruel method, as is poisoning. Shooting is impractical - has anyone actually been lamping for foxes?? I have on numerous occasions and have, as yet, been unable to kill a single fox.

It would be nice if Tony and his gang could stick to sorting out the important issues and keep away from unnecessary social engineering.
 
E

error_unknown

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#7
B M you are obviously not as good a shot as you thought you were!!! I have done 15 Foxes in one night, I suggest you call in a professional 'Keeper' to deal with your foxes!!
 
#8
why not ban hunting foxes. and make Animal rights,hunt sabotures,enviromentalists the hunts quarry ;D
 
#9
Now I have to agree with you there, it may not be the traditional form of hunting, but hey, it would certainly be a little bit more entertaining  ;D
 
#10
This is just El Presidentie's thank you to the lickspittles who populate his backbenches for pulling Byers' cohones out of the fire.

Ban away I say. As long as we don't stray inside the M25 corridor nobody from this goverment is going to notice anyway ;)
 
#11
Just in case there are any foxes reading this.....your consolation is that most of the guys wearing red clothing that chase you on those hunts will later be paying some dominatrix good money to flail their a*ses with real whips.....  Did I bring a smile to your snouts?  
 
#12
Just in case there are any foxes reading this.....your consolation is that most of the guys wearing red clothing that chase you on those hunts will later be paying some dominatrix good money to flail their a*ses with real whips.....  Did I bring a smile to your snouts?  
 
#15
The knock on effect on a hunting ban is what seems to be forgotten- think of it yesterdays Grand National winner was a point-to-pointer first and foremost.
Without hunting you have no point-to-point racing and therefore one of the closest sporting events in recent years would not have happened.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#16
RTG,
Hmm and how many of the multi million pound racehorses that took part in the Grand National have ever been fox hunting.... hmm tricky, how about we say.... none!
 
#17
The cynic in me says that this would not be an issue where it not for the desire of the Islington liberals wanting to destroy the "forces of conservatism" and make us forget what heritage we have because it doesn't account for the style of all-encompassing inclusiveness that says that elite educational institutions should be smashed and dumbed down to meet a social agenda of supposed equality, he denial of a monarchy in favour of a presidency, the denial of a national identity in favour of a corporate European identity, and the alignment of our national character in favour of the bland middle-fo-the-road variety so favoured by the European Socialists. The world view that the current Government favours is one where it is impossible to hold a view of right or wrong, where history is forgotten in favour of the "future" and where homogenity is the order of the day. Taxation will be high, ingenuity and entreprenurial spirit will be crushed, the state will own all and decide all, and we will all be governed without a real democratic say in the decisions which are taken in our name. The Government is currently so arrogant as to believe it knows better than us what is and is not in our best interetsts, and in the case of hunting with hounds, this too is the case.

This ideology of homogenity and social inclusiveness into an automotive existence, of social engineering into a state of fear and domination over the process of free thought when mixed with hatred and envy for those who create wealth and exercise independant choice and authority manifests itself in the banning of an occupation deemed archane.

Would this have come to a head so suddenly had Stephen Byers not made such a hash of the railway system, and to preserve the face of the government made a deal with the devil? The snivelling syccophants sicken me to the core as I observe the theft of all that I hold dear by the hazy agenda of hatred for England and all her institutions that this Government has, the contempt for the voting public, and insults to our intelligence as spin replaces substance is all too much

The sooner this Govenment is voted out of office and consigned to oblivion, the better for all of us.
 
#19
FAO Sumo664

Any horse that has entered a point to point has to be in receipt of a certificate issued by a Master Of Foxhounds of any of the offical hunt within the UK

For the record 3 of the runners, including the winner, in saturdays Grand National were point to pointers last season and therefore were hunted atleast 8 times that season to qualify

Facts not fiction please
 
#20
FAO woopert

Do this country a favour - Get out of the army your obvious talents are wasted and will not be fully recognised .
Become an independant MP you've got my vote, thank you for one the best written and well thought out reflections on modern Britian I have read in years.

Buy yourself a drink and proceed to the top of the class.
 
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