Former troops to be recruited as teachers

#1
#2
Michael Gove's education reform: Trendy teaching out to focus on traditional subjects | Mail Online

Former troops are to be recruited as teachers in a drive to do away with "trendy" teaching policies. servicemen without a degree will have tuition fees pid for by the taxpayer to complete a two year course whilst those with degrees could be in classrooms within a week.


Can you see it working? I think it's a good idea but are we too far down the slippery slope already?
Depends on the kids I suppose. They cant AGAI the little bastards if they decide not to listen.
 
#4
Could it not be argued that part of the cause of the breakdown in discipline is due to "lefty" teaching methods (and teachers) which focus on everyone being victims? The current "I know my rights" mindset is now at least second generation. The recovery has to start somewhere and if it takes a few no-nonsense ex drill pigs then so be it. I can't see the rest of the teaching profession accepting these proposals with open arms though. I envisage nice guy / bad guy scenes being played in all the UK schools with ex services occupying one side of the staffroom spinning dits whilst the other teachers affectate outrage at what they hear.
 
#5
I think it could work. Externally instilled class discipline requires force of character above all else - kids respond to that like any other animal.
 
#6
Could it not be argued that part of the cause of the breakdown in discipline is due to "lefty" teaching methods (and teachers) which focus on everyone being victims? The current "I know my rights" mindset is now at least second generation. The recovery has to start somewhere and if it takes a few no-nonsense ex drill pigs then so be it. I can't see the rest of the teaching profession accepting these proposals with open arms though. I envisage nice guy / bad guy scenes being played in all the UK schools with ex services occupying one side of the staffroom spinning dits whilst the other teachers affectate outrage at what they hear.
I suppose it depends on if the kids are young enough to not know their rights, then it might work otherwise it could cause problems. Discipline in the forces used to be backed up with a smack in the chops, nowdays the threat of minor sanctions covers things, neither is available in a school.
 

Joker62

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#7
Could it not be argued that part of the cause of the breakdown in discipline is due to "lefty" teaching methods (and teachers) which focus on everyone being victims? The current "I know my rights" mindset is now at least second generation. The recovery has to start somewhere and if it takes a few no-nonsense ex drill pigs then so be it. I can't see the rest of the teaching profession accepting these proposals with open arms though. I envisage nice guy / bad guy scenes being played in all the UK schools with ex services occupying one side of the staffroom spinning dits whilst the other teachers affectate outrage at what they hear.
The staffroom would be a very dodgy place, did they or did they not skiff the cups?
 
#8
I think it could work. Externally instilled class discipline requires force of character above all else - kids respond to that like any other animal.
Until they find their attempts to enforce discipline hampered by parents who "knows my rights like, you ****ing can't talk to Kyle/brittney/Courtney/Jacob (delete as appropriate) like that I'll have you sacked" kids who cry assault when you try to enforce any class rules and unsuportive headmasters/governors.
 
#9
Until they find their attempts to enforce discipline hampered by parents who "knows my rights like, you ****ing can't talk to Kyle/brittney/Courtney/Jacob (delete as appropriate) like that I'll have you sacked" kids who cry assault when you try to enforce any class rules and unsuportive headmasters/governors.
Of course it depends on how solid the backing is, of what disposition are the other teachers, the heads of department, the headmaster and principal etc.

The problem is that so many headmasters have got **** all interest in education and just treat the places as a business train-set "I do X, meet Y targets, and I get Z amount of lolly".*

But a 'surge' of ex-service teachers could mean a sea change and embolden other teachers who felt alone in their attitudes.

Edit : Effective sanctions are there in theory, whether they are implemented in the correct spirit depends on how the ship is run.

*We have the proponents of Corporate Britain to thank for this.
 
#10
Edit : Effective sanctions are there in theory, whether they are implemented in the correct spirit depends on how the ship is run.
What sanctions? You cant belt the little ******* any more. You could try excluding them but then if they dont want to learn they wont be that bothered.
 
#11
What sanctions? You cant belt the little ******* any more. You could try excluding them but then if they dont want to learn they wont be that bothered.
Neither are the teachers and fellow pupils who actually want to get on with the lesson.

Believe it or not plenty of schoolyard 'bad-boys' actually have parents who will belt them for being excluded. You've never seen a 18 year old 7-foot yardie wannabe hang his head while his 5 foot nothing Miss Mattie Jamaican mama tears him 2 new ********* for being sent home.

Alot of these stories in the Sun and the Express are just that - sensationalist news stories, where the management is so weak and disconnected that they fail to back up the actions of the teachers against inquests mounted by human-rights inquisitors (jobsworth, court-shy Local Authority officials or fee chasing lawyers) or put some real thought into interpreting the legislation in a way that preserves school discipline - they do exist, they're just not encouraged by the way things are.
 
#12
If anything, it would help keep a lot of ex-services off the dole. The danger would be though - would they be regarded as the PCSOs of the teaching profession by the other teachers?
Any teachers able to comment? Is there that sort of "snobbery" in the profession?
 
#13
Not a teacher but good friends with a few and currently in higher education myself, and my own 2p :

There may be some ideological snobbery as most teachers tend to slant to the left but it has always been one of those 'refuge' professions with refugees from all walks of life so as long as the person is a qualified teacher he'll fit in to a degree as they're all odds n sods anyway.
 
#14
Neither are the teachers and fellow pupils who actually want to get on with the lesson.

Believe it or not plenty of schoolyard 'bad-boys' actually have parents who will belt them for being excluded. You've never seen a 18 year old 7-foot yardie wannabe hang his head while his 5 foot nothing Miss Mattie Jamaican mama tears him 2 new ********* for being sent home.

Alot of these stories in the Sun and the Express are just that - sensationalist news stories, where the management is so weak and disconnected that they fail to back up the actions of the teachers against inquests mounted by human-rights inquisitors (jobsworth, court-shy Local Authority officials or fee chasing lawyers) or put some real thought into interpreting the legislation in a way that preserves school discipline - they do exist, they're just not encouraged by the way things are.
There is a loggie who used to be a teacher in St Vincent, who told me stories of how things were in school back on his island (Parents sided with the teacher mainly) and how things were when he first came to London as a teacher (He had to practically beg kids to do something).
I know of teachers in private and SCE school who think its far from sensationalist, they have said they would never work in inner city schools because they are powerless.
 
#15
There is a loggie who used to be a teacher in St Vincent, who told me stories of how things were in school back on his island (Parents sided with the teacher mainly) and how things were when he first came to London as a teacher (He had to practically beg kids to do something).
I know of teachers in private and SCE school who think its far from sensationalist, they have said they would never work in inner city schools because they are powerless.
Yet there are inner city schools in London where parents are upping sticks and buying properties near just to get their kids into them.

It's a question of management, of the kind of Captain that the ship has if you'll excuse the nautical analogy again. Brassy locations require a brassy head who will stick his face back into the iquisitors' (parents or their agents) rather than bend over for a quiet life.*

Schools have toxic leadership problems too, and in these PC days where staff have to be far more wily and circumspect with the law in order to get the job done many heads simply bury their heads into the targets and statistics and leave the 'non-managerial' aspects of the school (as if there is such a thing) to the wolves.

*An oblique example would be the headmistress who publicly declared A-levels to be shit and not worth the paper they're printed on before putting the whole school on a curriculum written around Cambridge University's entrance exams.
 
#16
Yet there are inner city schools in London where parents are upping sticks and buying properties near just to get their kids into them.
I assume these schools don't (currently) have any problems? Its easy enough to run a school when the kids are well behaved and their parents are taking an interest in their education, but those sort of schools don't really need ex servicemen becoming teachers. Its the shit ones where all the trouble makers are, but I can't see how an ex squaddie will be able to help.
 
#17
I assume these schools don't (currently) have any problems? Its easy enough to run a school when the kids are well behaved and their parents are taking an interest in their education, but those sort of schools don't really need ex servicemen becoming teachers. Its the shit ones where all the trouble makers are, but I can't see how an ex squaddie will be able to help.
The kids are well behaved because they're gripped (within the limits of the same laws that apply those self-same problem schools) if they don't and the parents are told to go and find another school if they don't like it, as little Jackie is hindering the other pupils. The demographics of London being what it is, no school has a homogenous kind of pupil(+parents).
 
#18
The kids are well behaved because they're gripped (within the limits of the same laws that apply those self-same problem schools) if they don't and the parents are told to go and find another school if they don't like it, as little Jackie is hindering the other pupils. The demographics of London being what it is, no school has a homogenous pupil base.
Like I said, its not to bad if the parents are taking an interest, if they are not they dont give a shit where litle Jackie goes, which is more than likily the school for the disruptive, although it generally more than one school. I'm fairly sure one of the more bone rules is that the state/council/School authority HAS to provide kids an education no matter how badly behaved they are.
 
#19
but I can't see how an ex squaddie will be able to help.
I can. Most of the current problems we seem to hear about all seem to centre around scrotes and their peers. Being seen to be "hard" or regarded as such by the other kids etc. A bloke called Sebastian wearing corduroy and a wispy goatee will find it very difficult to establish Alpha male with a few of those kids about. A bloke called Dave with a few forearm tats and Herrick dits might stand a better chance though.

Just realised though - This could cause problems in schools in places such as Birmingham, Bradford etc.
 
#20
I can. Most of the current problems we seem to hear about all seem to centre around scrotes and their peers. Being seen to be "hard" or regarded as such by the other kids etc. A bloke called Sebastian wearing corduroy and a wispy goatee will find it very difficult to establish Alpha male with a few of those kids about. A bloke called Dave with a few forearm tats and Herrick dits might stand a better chance though.

Just realised though - This could cause problems in schools in places such as Birmingham, Bradford etc.
The Loggie I mentioned earlier, is PTI trained, he was a big man before joining the army and had already been a teacher in his own country, yet he said there was little he could do in British school.
The kids (in some schools) won't care what he's done or where he's been, he can't touch them without losing his job therefore they have nothing to fear from him.
 

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