Former Genrerals in Cash for Access Sting, rules broken; reputations sullied?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by bokkatankie, Oct 14, 2012.

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  1. Ooops, looks like tea and medals may be withdrawn, it includes Admirals and whatever the same thing is in the RAF:

    Cash for access: former generals broke rules, says Philip Hammond - Telegraph

    The Defence Secretary warned that he was prepared to "shut the door" of the Ministry of Defence to retired military chiefs if they could not be trusted.

    He was speaking after senior figures including Lord Dannatt, the former head of the Army, and Lieutenant-General Sir John Kiszely, former head of the Defence Academy, were caught up in a "generals for hire" newspaper sting.
  2. Not sure if this should have been posted in the Waltencommando section or the fiction section (see bold):

    Adding that he suspected the generals had been overplaying their hands when they were taped boasting to undercover reporters from the Sunday Times that they could help procure military contracts, he said: "There is no way that retired officers influence the way military equipment is procured. I'm happy that the system is completely robust."

    Saying he guessed that the retired military chiefs had been "bigging up" their roles, he added: "I hear bravado here."
  3. I bought the Times for the full read. Usual techniques applied by the Insight Team with each General falling for it. Interestingly two unnamed Generals refused their offer point blank which adds credibility to the journos ie it was not a complete stitch up!!

    I've been on the staff of two of the Generals involved and both were decent to work for, but on looking back neither ever turned down the option of a was particularly adept at enjoying a bit of Twickers action via the Defence Industry. Doesn't make either a crook, indeed a long way from it, but they've both been burned by the lack of clarity when it comes to defining what is routine access and direct lobbying.

    I suspect that these officers will now retire more gracefully; Kiszeley may have to consider "retiring" sooner rather than later from RBL though as his words were somewhat distasteful.

    Real impact will be upon those senior officers who've just taken redundancy....looks like the gravy train just hit the rails!?
  4. One wonders (in a totally cynical way) how much the Government paid the Sunday Times?
  5. hmm, it does say that the impetus for the investigation was a senior civil servant who reported the activity of certain retd officers due to their toxic affect upon the procurement process......he/she may just have have been "encouraged" by someone?

    Not sure what the impact will be? I suppose the fallout will depend upon how far the Govt wants to take it.....probably a few missives reinforcing the need for probity, but it is an embarrassing episode for these officers and their reputations.
  6. I suspect The real danger here is some sort of whiplash reaction - most probably led by those 2 ***** balls and milliband to stop ex mil being directly employed into the defence industry - after all any changes to what you re allowed to do after termination of service should be across the board and not just at a specific rank - mil personnel of WO upwards are intimately involved in procurement but obviously with different levels of influence
  7. Not having read the article, only saw the Sky news chat on it, surely what they were supposedly doing was a form of "networking" ie using their personal knowledge of individuals to actually get to talk to them, which is the norm in the civilian workplace. I mean this is how and why Blair & Brown got some very lucrative contracts advising certain companies when they left power! See a snip of Blairs income which could only be the result of him being PM previously! "Records sent to Companies House reveal a substantial leap in Tony Blair's income in the year ending March 2011, but such a rise has not been passed on to the taxman. One of his many companies and partnerships, Windrush Ventures, declared a turnover of £12m, up from £8.5m the year before."
    Brown, unsurprisingly, hasn't done quite so well see here BBC News - Gordon Brown earns £1.4m since leaving Number 10
    snip :- "Mr Brown's most lucrative speech, in Nigeria, earned £74,936, and he got more than £180,000 in fees and expenses for work at New York University." He certainly could not have got this sort of cash without him being PM before! so it would appear that the media & certain ministers are having a go at the retired military.
    Also If I recall certain former Tory ministers have fallen into nice directorships immediately on leaving power, one N. Tebbit & B.Telecom come to mind!!

  8. Actually, a 'reminder' about Business Appointment rules was pushed down the CoC about two or three weeks ago. I thought it was connected to Tranche 2, albeit a little late in the day, but the timeline is beginning to make sense now.
  9. It could be an attempt by (either or both) Government/Senior Civil Servants stopping ex Senior Officers gaining undue influence in equipment purchase, defence policy, or anything really that goes against what the government of the day and it's SCS want.

    Looking at how smug Hammond looked on The Andrew Marr show this morning, I think he was probably well aware this was lurking in the background and had got himself well briefed.
  10. What a bunch of cynics we are but I do have the feeling that on this we may be right. What better way to shut them up!

    Having said that I, for one, was getting a little tired of hearing how they would do things differently now and that they know best, when it is plain to all that they played the game when at the top.
  11. TheIronDuke

    TheIronDuke LE Book Reviewer

    Jesus. Do these people not read the papers? And suss "The Fake Sheikh" (OK, NotW, but the same deal) and Insight Team stings on Government Ministers using paper-thin companies with websites that did not exist a week last Thursday... who the sh*d is advising these people? I despair. I really do.

    I caught this story this morning on one of those TV screens they have in the back of car headrests on my way to the airport. I think it was tuned to Sky News. Jock Stirrup was on and acquitted himself well, particularly on the role of lobbying in winning MoD contracts.

    There was a RN boy who was asked if there were restrictions on what he could achieve in terms of lobbying, given his contractual obligations since he retired from service. And he said... (I paraphrase)...

    "Yes there are. But I ignore them"

    I would be kind of interested to ask the man a question.

    If, Sir, you issued an order to a subordinate Officer, and that Officer did not obey that order. And then said in his/her defence...

    "I was aware of the order. But I ignored it".

    What, Sir. Would be your reaction?

    Like I said. I have not yet read the Insight Team article. But I feel some (Sir Jock who had the minerals to talk to Moygnehan on Sky News this am) will walk away with their rep intact.

    And some will not.
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Generals and others must wait two years from the date they leave the service before they can work in the defence industry, how long must a senior civil servant or MP wait? Well, they don't, they jump right in. Did Dannatt and Co break the law or breach their military contract? I think not. Storm in a tea cup orchestrated by politicians smarting from the tongue lashings they've been receiving, as a result of their ineptitude and myopia in their treatment of the armed services, from pissed off Generals.... and a few Crab spivs!