Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by KGB_resident, Aug 18, 2006.
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"I believe there is no future for Jews outside Israel," said Yossi Vardakis, 19, while en route from London to Israel, where he plans to study rather than face hostility at a British university. "You don't feel really welcomed being Jewish [in England]. You're attacked for supporting Israel... You see this hatred coming out."
He must be off his head Sergy. He obviously hasnât bothered to read any press recently. 4000 rockets fired into Israel in the space of a month. There is also the little matter of suicide bombers. I do hope that Yossi has got it right.
Sorry i am anti israel not anti Judaism. You are free to be whatever religion you care for around me but yes if he came out with a hardline pro-Israeli argument around me then he would face opposition, We (the British) made some hienous errors in supporting an Israeli state with no holds barred. I accept teh Jewish have a right to lands where they can control their own government but not at the expense of another race/state.
I am not anti-semitic, Im just opposed to the present acts of the state of Israel. I am not opposed to the state of Israel only the manner in which they carry out their actions.
Far to pissed to carry on a conversation over this this evening, but will defend my standpoint at leisure tomorrow
In absolute numbers, Great Britain is today second only to France in serious anti-Semitic incidents among European countries. The hostile climate of opinion has been accompanied by an increase in violent assaults in the last two years. The number of synagogue desecrations has also soared, as well as serious attacks in the London neighborhood of Finsbury Park, and in the cities of Swansea and Edinburgh. A near-tripling in anti-Semitic incidents in British schools prompted the National Union of Teachers to issue new guidelines in July 2003 for combating anti-Semitism. There were also acts of vandalism in the months following the American invasion of Iraq, such as the desecration of a Jewish cemetery in the East End of London, where more than 400 graves were smashed. Last June, particularly ugly desecrations took place in Manchester and London cemeteries.
The CST believes that the findings of the survey support the conclusion that the anti-Zionist propaganda campaign in Britain by pro-Palestinian activists has afforded widespread legitimization to anti-Semitism.
The new British anti-Semitism
Following that post I should possibly justify my position.
I do not petrol bomb Jews or their places of worship, But if a pro-Israeli were to come hammer and tongs at me supporting the right of Israel to attack its neighbours I would query their motives and justification.
Jewish people don't half have a victim complex.
I think most people are anti-isreali, and anti-us because they beleive everything they see on BBC news, I dont think where going to see gas chambers built in the UK anytime soon.
Worse stuff happens to school kids here in Nottingham every day whatever their race/religion than the stuff in that list.
Suppose that I would be born in the UK and for some reasons decide to settle in Russia. What would I say on the arrival?
First of all, great thanks for British people, thanks for bread made by British baker, thanks to British teachers that taught me... I would say that Britain is in my heart forever.
Some really heavy stuff there! If thatâs all it takes to emigrate, they will really enjoy Israel! Who exactly compiles this list? How on earth can âTossing a boiled eggâ be anti Semitic?
Im not opposed to the idea of an Israeli nation state! But having read "The holocaust Industry" I find the nature of Jewish Zionism to be entirely self serving!
My Ex girlfriends father had been living in Haifa as an Arab until 1949 he left with his parents and returned to find people of his generation supporting the idea of co inhabitance but the younger generation fiercely opposed to any Arab entering Israeli territory (forgetting the lands history) Equally his Wife (a Jew) had left Israel because she couldnt bear to see the ghettoisation and and resentment shown toward Hews during WWII shown to Arabs in her own nation.
"The holocaust Industry" by Norman Finkelstein
Norman Finkelstein's Fraudulent Scholarship
âNorman Finkelstein [is] a writer celebrated by neo-Nazi groups for his Holocaust revisionism and comparisons of Israel to Nazi Germany.â
âCampus Should Cultivate Its Seeds of Debate,â
Washington Post, December 3, 2002
â[Because of Finkelsteinâs The Holocaust Industry] I feel like a kid in a candy storeâ¦ Finkelstein is a Jewish David Irving.â [Irving is the notorious Holocaust denier who claims that Hitler was âthe Jewsâ greatest friend.â]
Intended to be a compliment by
Ingrid Rimland, wife of neo-Nazi and Holocaust denier Ernst Zuendel,
Eds. Martin Dietzsch and Alfred Schobert
âThis book is, in a word, an ideological fanaticâs viewâ¦by a writer so reckless and ruthless in his attacks... [His theory is] both irrational and insidiousâ¦an international Jewish conspiracy verges on paranoia and would serve anti-Semitesâ¦. [Finkelstein] combines an old-hat 1960's view of Israel as the outpost of American imperialism with a novel variation on the anti-Semitic forgery, ''The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,'' which warned of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the worldâ¦. [A] series of vague, undocumented and contradictory assertionsâ¦. There is something sad in this warping of intelligence, and in this perversion of moral indignation. There is also something indecent about it, something juvenile, self-righteous, arrogant and stupid.â
Omer Bartov, âA Tale of Two Holocausts,â
New York Times, August 6, 2000, p. 8
Norman Finkelstein's Fraudulent Scholarship
Anti-Zionists and anti-Semites often reference Finkelsteinâs books despite the fact that they are marred by factual inaccuracies, omissions and selective mention of fact. Much of his work is seemingly shaped by his antagonism toward the Jewish establishment and his avowed anti-Zionism. Thus, he routinely accuses pro-Israel writers of being âfraudsâ and âplagiarists,â and labels their work âhoaxes.â
Just as inaccurate as the Holocaust Industry is Finkelsteinâs book Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict. Dedicated to the proposition that Israel and Zionism are illegitimate, the book relies largely on anti-Israeli secondary sources and virtually ignores contrary evidence.
For example, Finkelsteinâs chapter âBorn of War, Not by Design,â about the 1948 Palestinian refugees, relies almost exclusively on Benny Morrisâs book The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, which has been seriously challenged by mainstream historians for selectively using Israeli archival material. Finkelstein relies on information found in The Birth, but often distorts already questionable material. For example, Morris claims in one of his endnotes that Ben-Gurion said:
[a return] is out of the question until we sit together beside a [peace conference] table...and they will respect us to the degree that we respect them and I doubt whether they deserve respect as we do. Because, nonetheless, we did not flee en masse. [And] so far no Arab Einstein has arisen and [they] have not created what we have built in this country and [they] have not fought as we are fighting...We are dealing with a collective murderer.
Rather than checking the original source, Finkelstein distorts the secondary source. In order to demonstrate Ben-Gurionâs âextremeâ âracis[ism],â he shortens Morrisâs citation to read, âArabs were not entitled to the same respect accorded to Jews because âso far no Arab Einstein has arisen...We are dealing with a collective murderer.â â
Benny Morris himself has long been critical of Finkelsteinâs scholarly research as it relates to his [Morrisâs] work. He criticizes Finkelstein for âselectively quot[ing]â from his book and for not knowing âanything ...beyond what is foundâ in his books. His sources, according to Morris, are âdubious,â and he adds that Finkelstein fails to marshal âsources or materials from elsewhere that could serve to contradict my findingsâ (Journal of Palestine Studies, Autumn 1991). According to Morris, âfor Finkelstein the only good Israeli is an evil Israeli.â
Did you write that yourself or quote it to discredit the author,
Im off for a fag and another drink......................back in a sec......maybe a minute!.........or tomorrow!
Yeah....but those orthodox hats look stupid. And the wierd curly sideburn things...my daughter does an awesome version of that with her tongs in about two minutes. Clearly a racist!
Is that all you can come up with? How about some end results, those stats tell nothing. Try spending a few nights in Brixton. There is some fun going on there, particularly if you are not Afro Caribbean. Wake up and get a life!
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