"forgotten man within his own battalion"

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/4737972.stm

A soldier who was shot in Iraq is to be discharged from the Army after he serves 12 months in military custody for a drugs offence.

Pte Kevin Challis, 22, of the 2nd Battalion Princess of Wales Royal Regiment pleaded guilty on Tuesday to attempting to supply cocaine.
If I were a juryman then my verdict would be 'not guilty'.

Defence solicitor Paul Colhoun ... said Pte Challis had been given little or no official help in getting over his ordeal.

"The armed services have a clear responsibility to young soldiers," said Mr Colhoun, adding his client was the "forgotten man within his own battalion".
 
#3
Initially I felt some sympathy for Pte. Challis.

Then I read that:

He revealed Pte Challis had a previous conviction for drink driving, which involved driving an uninsured vehicle in an accident in which a person lost their leg. The current offence was not out of character but "another example of serious and irresponsible criminal behaviour".
And I lost any last vestige of sympathy for him, seeing as that was the point that his Services were No Longer Required.

Veg
 
#4
Vegetius said:
Initially I felt some sympathy for Pte. Challis.

Then I read that:

He revealed Pte Challis had a previous conviction for drink driving, which involved driving an uninsured vehicle in an accident in which a person lost their leg. The current offence was not out of character but "another example of serious and irresponsible criminal behaviour".
And I lost any last vestige of sympathy for him, seeing as that was the point that his Services were No Longer Required.

Veg
Vegetius!

How quickly you grasp my point! How such a person was allowed to serve in Iraq? He was too dangerous for Iraqi civil population.

The best representatives of British military should be sent to help Iraqis in establishing rule of Law, not the worst.
 
#6
Would a civvy get the same sentence for possession for own use?

Did they test the powder or not, must have done surely or is it just bad journalism, no hard facts so swag it

Was the drink driving also post op and part of a spiral of behaviour?

Is the PTSD a shameless attempt to wriggle out of it?

The judge advocate is reported to have conceded there "may have been a lack of help from the battalion" after the private was injured. Interesting he actually says this, what sort of support are we looking at. The title of the piece is pointing strongly in one direction, is this a quote from some one?

If he was a scrote why not just kick him out. Was this supposed to send a message "pour encourage les autres" ?

Did some one advise him to go courts martial on the chance he'd get a civvy solicitor to get him off

At least it chops the civvy solicitor versus cm myths

How can the judge Advocate categorically state

"the wounding of the soldier in Iraq had left him with mental as well as physical scars but said they played no part in the drug offence" it is substance abuse which I presume appears frequently as a Sign/Symptom of PTSD

Many angles not much info, no real opinion formed

Hopefully he was a scrote and is well shot of

Answers on a post card

theGimp

My thoughts are sliding to "Scrote yes but unlucky sentencing"
 
#7
thegimp said:
Would a civvy get the same sentence for possession for own use?
He pleaded guilty to attempting to supply cocaine - whatever the substance was, is, I suppose, pretty irrelevant if he thought it was cocaine.

The rest of your post matches my thoughts.
 
#8
Just re read the attempting to supply bit, you're right supply is a different matter

But the flavour of the article does give the impression that he just bought some on a night out, who was he trying to supply to and were the civvy coppers involved if not how did he come to get caught,

I'm getting a vague feeling that some thing is a bit loose in the whole story. not tin hat stuff (Probably just from lack of info and ambiguous writing)

Good job he wasn't in Singers though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheGimp
 
#9
"He said his client, who had previously served in Bosnia and Northern Ireland, had been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder."

I remember an old mate of mine, good lad but a bit wild, where'nt we all.
Well he's long out and gets invove with local bike gang and one thing leads to another. He gets lifted with 6 Kilos of Hash he is transporting.
His brief stands up and part of the plea of Mitigation is, the effect that all thoes years serving with the Regt at Hereford had on him.
He was a REME spanner mech on their Helis.
john
I've suffered as a result of post traumatic stress disorder from all thoes Pizz ups I attended.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#10
KGB_resident said:
Vegetius said:
Initially I felt some sympathy for Pte. Challis.

Then I read that:

He revealed Pte Challis had a previous conviction for drink driving, which involved driving an uninsured vehicle in an accident in which a person lost their leg. The current offence was not out of character but "another example of serious and irresponsible criminal behaviour".
And I lost any last vestige of sympathy for him, seeing as that was the point that his Services were No Longer Required.

Veg
Vegetius!

How quickly you grasp my point! How such a person was allowed to serve in Iraq? He was too dangerous for Iraqi civil population.

The best representatives of British military should be sent to help Iraqis in establishing rule of Law, not the worst.

earlier said:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk...737972.stm

A soldier who was shot in Iraq is to be discharged from the Army after he serves 12 months in military custody for a drugs offence.

Pte Kevin Challis, 22, of the 2nd Battalion Princess of Wales Royal Regiment pleaded guilty on Tuesday to attempting to supply cocaine.
If I were a juryman then my verdict would be 'not guilty'.

Defence solicitor Paul Colhoun ... said Pte Challis had been given little or no official help in getting over his ordeal.

"The armed services have a clear responsibility to young soldiers," said Mr Colhoun, adding his client was the "forgotten man within his own battalion".
(My bold.)

Yes Sergey, of course that was your point. :roll:

May I point you in the direction of your signature, or are you using these posts as an illustrative example ?
 
#11
Cutaway, thank you. I can't believe that ammount of pish can come from one person on a daily basis. Think he might have a problem distinguishing between dreams and reality.
 
#12
Cutaway!

I have an impression that you are not happy with my posts. What is wrong? In one case I expressed an opinion that is in line with recent directive made by dr.Reid. In another case I agreed with our friend Vegetius.

What is your personal point of view? Do you agree with me? If not then why?

Regards!
 
#13
Hope gets locked up.

Which part of the no tollerance policy for drug abuse does he not undertand?

Which part of supplying drugs is illegal did he not understand?

Since when has getting shot in Iraq meant that you can be a dope dealing serving soldier?

As for his previous conviction: obviously his first conviction did not change his mind regarding the requirement to follow the law.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#14
Inf/MP said:
Hope gets locked up.

Which part of the no tollerance policy for drug abuse does he not undertand?

Which part of supplying drugs is illegal did he not understand?

Since when has getting shot in Iraq meant that you can be a dope dealing serving soldier?

As for his previous conviction: obviously his first conviction did not change his mind regarding the requirement to follow the law.
Here, here
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#15
Perhaps its niave of me but I hope he gets the help he needs with any PTSD issues in Colchester. I understand that they do take rehab and resettlement very seriously there.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#16
Sergei - considering the number of Afghantsi with substance abuse problems I guess this is familiar turf.

British Armed Forces have two (conflicting) problems: 1) Recruiting/Retention 2) Drugs

After a lot of harried hair-pulling that we would lose 19-25 year olds in legions , it was decided to institute a very simple policy across the board...you do drugs and you're OUT......

To enforce this policy there is a very succesful random Compulsory Drug Testing team who descend at no notice on a barracks and will test anyone they like ( the FIRST guy to be CDT'd in the Royal Navy was the Personnel chief, Second Sea Lord - Admiral Sir Michael Boyce, later CDS - the SECOND was his senior SNCO Fleet Chief....happily both passed)...I can almost guarantee that General Sir Mike Jackson has also been CDT'd....(whether any tests for 110 proof malt whiskey were administered is....another matter......)

If the guy had issues post-Telic which he was dealing with by selling cocaine I dunno....seems an odd way to get therapy though..... PTSD is symptomatic...most people who have it will strongly deny they have a problem and have to be persuaded to the contrary....
 
#17
Forgotten man?

Bloody right as well, he sounds like a liability and we are best rid his kind as soon as........

No sympathy at all, strangely enough more or less in line with the military's policy on drugs............
 
#18
Goatman!

Pte Challis had a previous conviction for drink driving, which involved driving an uninsured vehicle in an accident in which a person lost their leg.
As I understand it is not so serious crime to be discharged from the Army. As to drugs, then a civilian would be jailed for years.

Pte Challis will serve his sentence at the military correction training centre in Colchester, Essex.
Why not aquit him and send to resort to treat his wound?
 
#19
Most soldiers with PTSD tend to resort to alcohol as a form of self medication to mask their PTSD symptoms, sooner or later though the cracks begin to show. The PTSD often comes to light as a result of disciplinary infractions, the distinction being that this is out of character for the soldier concerned.

When an otherwise good soldier turn bad, it should be seen as a warning sign his mates and by by the COC and help should be sought. Soldiers will mask their genuine suffering due to a) The culture of soldiering on regardless we have and b) The fear of Stigma, appearing weak and the real biggy the fact he will be career fouled as a result of reporting sick.
In the case in question it seems pretty clear that the guy was a scrote who was using PTSD as an excuse for rather than the cause of his conduct. As the Judge said, he was behaving very much IN character when the offence was committed. He should be bounced.
 
#20
KGB_resident said:
Why not aquit him and send to resort to treat his wound?
Because if he's guilty he should be punished, though punishment doesn't preclude concurrent rehabilitation. If what sknn says is true (and I have no reason to doubt), MCTC Colchester takes rehabilitation and resettlement very seriously, thus he pays his due to society and is treated at the same time.
 

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