Forgetting your firearm

D

Deleted 164106

Guest
An RAF 1* with a rifle? You sure about that?
I know - worrying indeed. Maybe that's why he kept trying to get rid of it.

I assume he mistook it for an elaborate ink quill pen when he took it from his batman.

Edit: Just seen my ref to him being a 1* - removed.
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
Bullshit, US Officers do not get reduced to enlisted men even via Courtmartial. if the offence is so egregious they are cashiered but not reduced to enlisted rank
Bullshit yourself, I and others know what happened and so did the rest of his unit - there are 'before and after' photo's somewhere i'll try and find
 
I do think British officers were reduced to the ranks if the plan was to execute them by firing squad.
There was a sequence in 'The Monocled Mutineer' (1980s BBC drama series) about Percy Topliss, in which an officer was shot by firing squad, after having been reduced to the rank of private. The incident was wholly fictitious as regards Topliss' involvement, but was based on the account of Victor Silvester, then a soldier and later famous band leader who had been one of the firing squad.

A bit of Googling today turned up a book 'The Great War, Myth and Memory', in which it says that Silvester had fabricated his account; only two British officers were shot for desertion in WW1, both were shot as officers and that officers were treated in the same way as enlisted men.
 
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One of my camps had me and a couple of other infantry campers, one of whom was an NCO meant to be training and keeping an eye on them, doing 24 hour radio and security watches at a small base staffed by retrained clerks and other useless items sent out to patrol a small township. To this end we were issued with the keys to the safe containing radio shit and a few other bits and bobs, as well as the shorter R5 rifle.

One of the watery eyed shufflers of paperwork was a mong who had attained the dizzy heights of sergeant without actually having any clue at all how to act like one in a patrol environment. The Infantry NCO was a corporal and thus nominally answerable to the mong sergeant (I was a dom troep along with the other inf bods, but had radio procedural experience, thus covering that side of things) but effectively in charge and trying to keep them out of trouble, despite the best efforts of the mong sergeant.

Anyhow, said mong sergeant had contrived to lock his R4 (full sized rifle) in the safe along with mine during times he wasn't 'patrolling'. I made sure he cleared it and removed the working parts first, stowing them on one side of the safe with my rifle in the same state on the other.

We'd arranged a range day to get the clerky types some shooting experience, so once my watch had ended I ducked across to the safe to get my rifle, only to find mong sergeant (who had come in earlier to ask for the keys to get his rifle before heading off to the range) had just grabbed the first set of working parts he saw, ie, those belonging to my R5, dropped them into his R4 and buggered off on the SAMIL to the range.

Now the R5 bits would fit into the R4 without any problems, and even work when fired, but not as optimally as the R4 bits. However, the gas piston on the R4 bits were too long to fit into the gas chamber of the R5, leaving the chamber open by about 2 inches.

After a bit of swearing and an accurate description of the sergeant's lineage, I assembled the rifle as best I could and got a ride to the range, hoping no one would notice the half cocked bolt and open chamber. Once there I cornered the fucker and asked for my working parts, all the while trying not to refer to him as the dull four eyed inbred cunt he was. The thing refused to admit he'd cocked up or to hand over my working parts until aforementioned corporal clocked the argument and came across to see what the problem was. The threat of a charge being laid for gross stupidity eventually convinced the mong sergeant to hand over my working parts and take his own.

The fucker had it in for me after that and was looking for an opportunity to gun me. He thought he'd struck gold when one of his pets picked a fight with me then went running off to cry on his shoulder when told to fuck off, but that also backfired for him. A story for another time.

 
There was a sequence in 'The Monocled Mutineer' (1980s BBC drama series) about Percy Topliss, in which an officer was shot by firing squad, after having been reduced to the rank of private. The incident was wholly fictitious as regards Topliss' involvement, but was based on the account of Victor Sylvester, then a soldier and later famous band leader who had been one of the firing squad.
Shot at Dawn records show that 3 officers went before the firing squad during WWI: 1 x Sub Lt RN (Desertion), 1 x 2nd Lt (Desertion) and 1 x Lt (Murder): http://www.webmatters.net/txtpat/?q=auto&s=Search&sort=name&cat=sad
 

Lacking Moral Fibre

Old-Salt
Book Reviewer
Can't remember the name of it but there used to be an MOD magazine that I came across back in the 1980's. One article listed all the incidents were weapons had been lost across all the services.
One incident was 2 TA guys out in a L/Rover on exercise they drove to a café and went in after leaving their SMG's cunningly hidden behind the seats. Of course when they returned the SMG's were gone...
Speaking of TA during my time in the RE(v) one of our AGC Sgts (Bob F-----) volunteered for attachment and went to Bosnia. He handed his SA80 at the first unit he was sent to, he kept being moved around, apparently he was told 'don't need yer wpn leave it in the armoury'. Problem by the time he came to tour end 'where's your wpn Sgt?'
It couldn't be found, units had come and gone etc and there was no trace of it. I think he got away without being blamed.
 
On exercise in Germany in the early 90's we did the usual bug out phase out of a wood somewhere . Prior to the move , (at night , everyone v tired ) made sure the entire section had all their kit , all other section commanders doing the same .
I distinctly recall asking the PC " Got all your kit , Sir ? Weapon ? " Said PC , in the usual flap, was heard by all to respond " Don't bother me now , can't you see I'm busy ??? " OK …….
Arrived at our new location and within minutes he can be heard asking
" Where's my weapon , has anyone got it ? " , followed by " Everyone mount up , we'll have to go back and find it "
The platoon sergeant handed him the keys to a 'Rover , the work ticket and a torch .
" Your f*ck up , you sort it "
We then went in to a lovely gasthaus , where the landlord locked our weapons in an upstairs room , let us use a bathroom to clean up and started pouring the beers ….
Happy days ……..
PS He found the weapon eventually and the platoon didn't grass him up
 
I've never left mine anywhere but on basic training I did leave it in my shell scrape while I had a piss about three metres away against a tree, it was spotted by one of the DS and I had a lovely tour of the very muddy trackplan twice round on my belt buckle while being screamed at till his voice went hoarse. I've never done it again!
 
I was told about an officer in Iraq who tried to hand in someone else's weapon as another officer had picked up his etc. Having met the said occifer, I can believe it. The arms storeman refused to sign it in, and insisted on putting it in a separate rack in the armoury. After about a week, the correct weapon was found and the exchange was done. The occifer wanted the storeman disciplined for insubordination or such like, but nothing came of it.
 
Left my small metal gun under a table in the dining room on the QE2 when sailing south in 82... still there when I went back for it 30 minutes later...

Prior to that, while still in the infantry, the Sigs Pl comd kept leaving his SMG lying around on Ex Crusader. We got into the habit of moving it to some place other than where he'd left it, but still leaving it plain sight. It was fun watching him running around looking for it. The Pl WO eventually had a quiet word with him...

...before telling the rest of the Pl to leave off and stop jerking his chain... :)
 
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Lacking Moral Fibre

Old-Salt
Book Reviewer
I was very much borderline on my regular recruits course and on the final phase of the final exercise we had to retake our trenches that we'd been chased out of the previous night. We were in shell scrapes a few Km's away, so in the early hours we set off loaded down with plenty of blank and knowing that within a few hours I'd know if I'd passed the course or not.
I was thrilled not to be part of the gun teams so I could be in the section in attack. It was during the said attack that I realised I was missing two magazines, so I had to fire my SLR carefully so I didn't run out too quickly.
After the 'battle' we went back to fill in the shell scrapes and tidy up, luckily for me in the day light I found my scrape and my 2 missing full mag's. If someone else and found them (didn't matter if it was a fellow recruit or the DS, I was the course mong) I knew they'd bin me for sure!
 
As a young lad in the 80's we had a disused quarry on the farm that the local police used as pistol range .
It was very informal and we used to go and collect the shiny brass / nickle left laying around ...both 9mm and .38 special .
We also picked up quite a few live rounds again both 9mm and .38 both on the floor and in boxes ........ it was something like off the Sweeney ....or that program with Keely Hawes....
Rounds all had the heads pulled off and the contents collected to make what we called Genies ....ie a big puff of smoke and flash.
 
On Medman many moons ago I found a large box on the post Ex clear up .
I showed it to the permanent staff NCO supervising our clear up detail and asked him what it was .
" That son , is a lottery win , well done, the Tankies will desperately want that back "
I can't remember exactly what it was , but it was exchanged for an awful lot of Labatts Blue
 
A certain RSM left his God’s own rifle leaned up against a 432 upon bugging out he was more concerned about dropping the camo nets and getting out of the way of the tanks. Several hours latter he clicked that it was awol. Sadly for him Dam Con had cleared the area and back filled every thing cue lots of mega panic. The OIC of Dam Con had spotted said rifle and retrieved it word on the street was that the whole Dam Con team were supplied with Yellow Handbags for the whole exercise and several chaps lost the extras clocked up in said RSM’s little black book.I am glad it was sorted with the need of plod as he was a good block one of if not the best RSM’s I have ever served with.
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
My boss in Afghan 'misplaced' their rifle (it turned up safe and well a few days later). We often had to bunk in transit accommodation as we tripped round the country. When we were chatting about it, the discussion came around to what do you (me) do with rifle/pistol when showering etc. Simple I say, I take both with me, lay them at the cubicle entrance and leave the shower curtain open, so I can always see them. Same for using the bogs.

I thought this was obvious :)
 
D

Deleted 164106

Guest
When I mobilised for a Herrick IA tour, I was issued a Glock at RTMC Chilwell. The training staff, what with me being an (allegedly) handsome, young, upstanding A/Maj asked if they could borrow the weapon as they were one short for the WHT that people had to carry out, and promised that I would get it back at the end of the day.

Come the end of the day, I went to pick up my Glock, the only one left, and on checking the serial number found that it was off by a couple of digits.

Balls.

Cue several urgent phone calls, and an extended drive back to Aldershot, via Bulford, to exchange said pistol from the LCpl who'd got it.
 
Can't remember the name of it but there used to be an MOD magazine that I came across back in the 1980's. One article listed all the incidents were weapons had been lost across all the services.
Speaking of TA during my time in the RE(v) one of our AGC Sgts (Bob F-----) volunteered for attachment and went to Bosnia. He handed his SA80 at the first unit he was sent to, he kept being moved around, apparently he was told 'don't need yer wpn leave it in the armoury'. Problem by the time he came to tour end 'where's your wpn Sgt?'
It couldn't be found, units had come and gone etc and there was no trace of it. I think he got away without being blamed.
I once turned up at a base for a training day with my platoon in the IDF reserves, asked around for where the signing in was, was directed to a shipping container-come hut where I was issued an M16, for which I signed the standard little chit illegibly. A little while after that, after I met some of my platoon, I realised that the improvised armoury where I received my gat wasn't my unit's. Had I chosen to I could have walked off the base with the M16, without them even being aware they were missing a weapon until that unit demobbed a week later, and then they would have had no way of tracing it definitively.
 
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Dwarf

LE
Germany cerca 1990,* CO 6RRF (now sodded off to NZ) giving O Gp in a gasthaus. 9mm fell out of its holster onto the floor. He never noticed.
Some hours later he twigged and sent his driver back to get it, which he did. Driver was warned to seal lips. He didn't and word soon got around.


*Exact date not known but Bro knows as he was there.
 
It was not mine but I did spend a good few hours combing the woods in a certain part of the Mourmelon Camp looking for the GP-35 pistol of a Belgian tanker who apparently had lost it during a night Leopard 1 NAVEX...these were pre-GPS days and finding your way in a foreign military camp was indeed a challenge...of course the pistol was never found.
 
Bullshit yourself, I and others know what happened and so did the rest of his unit - there are 'before and after' photo's somewhere i'll try and find
You are a LIAR flat out then

AR 600-8-24 covers Officer transfers and separations no mention of reduction in rank of a commissioned officer


In addition Commissioned Officers take an oath of Officer not enlistment. IF their commision is ended they no longer have an obligation to serve and are dismissed.

In addition under the UCMJ non judicial punishment for commissioned Officers-
(b)Subject to subsection (a), any commanding officer may, in addition to or in lieu of admonition or reprimand, impose one or more of the following disciplinary punishments for minor offenses without the intervention of a court-martial—
(1)upon officers of his command—
(A)
restriction to certain specified limits, with or without suspension from duty, for not more than 30 consecutive days;
(B)if imposed by an officer exercising general court-martial jurisdiction or an officer of general or flag rank in command—
(i)
arrest in quarters for not more than 30 consecutive days;
(ii)
forfeiture of not more than one-half of one month’s pay per month for two months;
(iii)
restriction to certain specified limits, with or without suspension from duty, for not more than 60 consecutive days;
(iv)
detention of not more than one-half of one month’s pay per month for three months;
 

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