Forged signature on mortgage; does Sheffield vs. Barclays still apply?

Naughty little banker, you’ve conveniently forgotten the lender is put on notice requiring them to confirm, within reason, that the information on the application is correct.

Because why wouldn’t you bother phoning both people to confirm details?
Who knows what the circumstances were? The lender should, indeed, exercise diligence.....but that only goes so far. It's going to get very complicated, particularly as the alleged fraud occured 14 years ago (2004 I believe). A court of ombudsman will ask why the fraud wasn't noticed when the mortgage repayment had increaed during that 14 year period.

It sounds like a very sad state of affairs.
 
What are the Parachute Regiment Association going to do about it?
I could tell you a story about a grow house that was established in the house next door to the dad of an NCO in 3 para.

Long story short: A favour was called in and Plod arrived at Zero Dark 30 to find the somewhat worse for wear scrotes bagged and plasti-cuffed on the pavement with the door to the house open. Suspicious! Lets go in and have a look.
 
I think it falls apart on the fact that a marriage is a partnership, one partner can run up debts but both are liable. Weren't the signatures witnessed?

Lawyer time.
It’s not that sort of partnership though, is it.

Had they both signed a document that rendered them jointly and severally liable then yes. Otherwise, no idea.
 
In summary; joint mtg of about 90k. Husband had a gambling problem, forged his wife's signature to obtain further advance, mortgage now about 200k.

Lender saying "Not our problem" as they would.

My brane remembered the case of Sheffield Corporation vs. Barclays which indicates it is their problem - is it still the case that counts? Or has it been superseded?

The forgery occurred about ten years ago, trying to found out when it was discovered.

TIA

BB
A mortgage agreement is essentially a contract and therefore essential elements have to be found to occur
  • An offer.
  • An acceptance.
  • Competent parties who have the legal capacity to contract.
  • Lawful subject matter.
  • Mutuality of obligation.
  • Consideration.
Number 3 is where the Bank will have a problem if you can obtain empirical evidence that the signature party did not have the legal capacity to sign the contract as they signed fraudulently, it is not the lenders problem in so much as they can prove due diligence as you have to prove they acted in a careless manner. My professional advice is to lure both parties to the property force them sign it over to you, kill them then burn it to the ground then collect the insurance, invest ill gotten gains in booze and hookers fritter away the rest.
 
It’s not that sort of partnership though, is it.

Had they both signed a document that rendered them jointly and severally liable then yes. Otherwise, no idea.
According to the decision I linked to above, the act of the fraudulent application serves to automatically end the joint tenancy and revert to tenancy in common - so it looks like the bank have a claim over the fraudsters half, but the victims half remains intact
 
A mortgage agreement is essentially a contract and therefore essential elements have to be found to occur
  • An offer.
  • An acceptance.
  • Competent parties who have the legal capacity to contract.
  • Lawful subject matter.
  • Mutuality of obligation.
  • Consideration.
Number 3 is where the Bank will have a problem if you can obtain empirical evidence that the signature party did not have the legal capacity to sign the contract as they signed fraudulently, it is not the lenders problem in so much as they can prove due diligence as you have to prove they acted in a careless manner. My professional advice is to lure both parties to the property force them sign it over to you, kill them then burn it to the ground then collect the insurance, invest ill gotten gains in booze and hookers fritter away the rest.
Consensus capacity consideration formality legality intention...

The point of the case referenced above is that it IS (or was) the bank's fault for "honouring" a fake signature.
 
A mortgage agreement is essentially a contract and therefore essential elements have to be found to occur
  • An offer.
  • An acceptance.
  • Competent parties who have the legal capacity to contract.
  • Lawful subject matter.
  • Mutuality of obligation.
  • Consideration.
Number 3 is where the Bank will have a problem if you can obtain empirical evidence that the signature party did not have the legal capacity to sign the contract as they signed fraudulently, it is not the lenders problem in so much as they can prove due diligence as you have to prove they acted in a careless manner. My professional advice is to lure both parties to the property force them sign it over to you, kill them then burn it to the ground then collect the insurance, invest ill gotten gains in booze and hookers fritter away the rest.
I’m not convinced by your interpretation of point 3.

My understanding of that is that it refers to the signatories being of sound mind and not being under the influence of drink and/or drugs nor under duress.

However I thoroughly endorse your resolution plan.
 
Really interesting - especially: It recognises that the effect of a forged joint legal mortgage is to leave the lender with an equitable charge over the forger’s beneficial interest which it is entitled to enforce by applying for an order for sale
 
To Do List

1. Report it to dibble as fraud.
2. Get a solicitor
3. Lodge a formal complaint with the FCA. And possibly the PRA. Lack of due diligence, insufficient money laundering practices, etc etc
Interesting to see if the "signature" was witnessed and if on bank premises... When I worked in the Securities Department of a Bank we'd insist the clients both came in.
 
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Really interesting - especially: It recognises that the effect of a forged joint legal mortgage is to leave the lender with an equitable charge over the forger’s beneficial interest which it is entitled to enforce by applying for an order for sale
So if that was effected in this case then that’s probably the best that she can hope for. Half the property. Or possibly more, depending on the value, amount of equity etc.
 
I’m not convinced by your interpretation of point 3.

My understanding of that is that it refers to the signatories being of sound mind and not being under the influence of drink and/or drugs nor under duress.

However I thoroughly endorse your resolution plan.
Legal capacity to sign for example you are that person and not committing fraud.
 
I’m not convinced by your interpretation of point 3.

My understanding of that is that it refers to the signatories being of sound mind and not being under the influence of drink and/or drugs nor under duress.

However I thoroughly endorse your resolution plan.
I am very familiar with contract law here in Canada here with mortgages/property purchase the lender is required to obtain and take a copy of identification additionally if there is the slightest suspicion of wrongdoing and you don't stop the process and report you the lender become liable, having reviewed the requirements for the UK it looks very similar the lender has to check and copy the identification of signatories and this doesn't seem to have been done in this case.
 
Interesting to see if the "signature" was witnessed and if on bank premises... When I worked in the Securities Department of a Bank we'd insist the clients both came in.
Is there even a "signature"? It may well be that the bank scanned the original document and then binned it. I believe that such practices were quite common up until about ten years ago. And considering the quality of some scanning would a signature even be readable?
 
Consensus capacity consideration formality legality intention...

The point of the case referenced above is that it IS (or was) the bank's fault for "honouring" a fake signature.
Was there any reason for the bank to be suspicious of either signature?
 
Was there any reason for the bank to be suspicious of either signature?
Dunno, mate; I'm helping out a chum. I will ask how the signature was "witnessed".
 

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