Foreign Patient Transplant Probe

#1
There are 8,000 people on the transplant register with 2-3 dying every day but it is thought nearly 800 transplants have been carried out by the NHS on non-UK patients. They included 674 liver, 47 kidney and 57 cornea operations. European law requires that NHS hospitals give EU patients the same access to services as UK patients.

Discuss.
 
#2
Thats why I binned my doner card.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#3
Desertbootz said:
There are 8,000 people on the transplant register with 2-3 dying every day but it is thought by a small group of neo-fascists who like to provoke and thereby promote their agenda that nearly 800 transplants have been carried out by the NHS on non-UK patients - although of course they have no evidence to support this. They included 674 liver, 47 kidney and 57 cornea operations. Probably some European law has a specific clause (although nobody can find it) relating to the British NHS that rerequires that NHS hospitals give EU patients and especially immigrants - probably the same access to services as UK patients.

Discuss.
I just discovered that I am Liberal - so I need to practice, so I edited it for you.
Which newspaper should I read now, I'm not sure :?
 
#4
The issue is organs donated freely in the NHS being paid for by overseas private patients. This has been happening and the rules are being changed to stop it.

Rightly so.
 
#5
Alsacien said:
Desertbootz said:
There are 8,000 people on the transplant register with 2-3 dying every day but it is thought by a small group of neo-fascists who like to provoke and thereby promote their agenda that nearly 800 transplants have been carried out by the NHS on non-UK patients - although of course they have no evidence to support this. They included 674 liver, 47 kidney and 57 cornea operations. Probably some European law has a specific clause (although nobody can find it) relating to the British NHS that rerequires that NHS hospitals give EU patients and especially immigrants - probably the same access to services as UK patients.

Discuss.
I just discovered that I am Liberal - so I need to practice, so I edited it for you.
Which newspaper should I read now, I'm not sure :?
The Original

Not often the BBC are accussed of neo-facism but hey-ho, you're the self appointed expert... and where's the evidence of your allegations?
 
#6
Its not as simple as that though as we import organs from overseas donors as well. It would be inappropriate to describe it as a marketplace and indeed it seems that this initiative is a 'market' that they are trying to avoid but organs travel all over the place in order to find a suitable patient rather than be wasted.
 
#7
Organ matching is rare, it's not just a case of one organ. check, one recipient, check, get them down to theatre and plumb it it. If you don't get it right, the body rejects the organ, difficult on the recipient if it's a kidney, fatal if its a heart lungs or liver.

I used to be involved in the process in a small way a long time ago, but as far as I can remember, it went something like "check for match in the UK, then check for match on international register. If we can't use it, someone else might. It works in reverse as well, so organs come into the UK from outside.

The story does not indicate whether they are non-nationals living here, or recipients that have travelled in for the surgery. I do know that patients requiring surgery from the Republic of Ireland have come to the UK for surgery as 1. there is a greater pool of potential donors (52 million as opposed to 4 million), and 2. expertise would not be in the ROI as they would be performing a lot less transplants. Whether the hospitals get paid I don't know, I'd imagine so.

The_Coming_Man said:
Thats why I binned my doner card.
Then you are a total arrse, not worthy of contempt. :roll:
 
#8
flamingo said:
Organ matching is rare, it's not just a case of one organ. check, one recipient, check, get them down to theatre and plumb it it. If you don't get it right, the body rejects the organ, difficult on the recipient if it's a kidney, fatal if its a heart lungs or liver.

I used to be involved in the process in a small way a long time ago, but as far as I can remember, it went something like "check for match in the UK, then check for match on international register. If we can't use it, someone else might. It works in reverse as well, so organs come into the UK from outside.

The story does not indicate whether they are non-nationals living here, or recipients that have travelled in for the surgery. I do know that patients requiring surgery from the Republic of Ireland have come to the UK for surgery as 1. there is a greater pool of potential donors (52 million as opposed to 4 million), and 2. expertise would not be in the ROI as they would be performing a lot less transplants. Whether the hospitals get paid I don't know, I'd imagine so.

The_Coming_Man said:
Thats why I binned my doner card.
Then you are a total arrse, not worthy of contempt. :roll:
It was a point of principal.

I binned my donor card after hearing private patients were buying freely donated organs while NHS patients were dying.

Just on BBC at least 50 livers were SOLD to foreign patients.

If this trade is stopped, I may carry my card again.

Only if there are no compatable UK citizens on the waiting list should an organ be offered overseas, and if it goes overseas, it should be for free.

The people beneath contempt are those who put profit before their NHS patients.
 
#9
Surely organs for transplant have a very limited shelf life. If a suitable properly tissue matched UK recipient cannot be found within that 'window of opportunity' it makes sense to let someone else who is a good match have it irrespective of where they are from.
 
#10
Swiss_Toni said:
Surely organs for transplant have a very limited shelf life. If a suitable properly tissue matched UK recipient cannot be found within that 'window of opportunity' it makes sense to let someone else who is a good match have it irrespective of where they are from.
Agreed,but organs freely donated for altruistic reasons should never be sold for profit.
 
#11
I carry a donner card. If I die on the way home from the pub, somebody else can have my kebab.
 
#12
Desertbootz said:
There are 8,000 people on the transplant register with 2-3 dying every day but it is thought nearly 800 transplants have been carried out by the NHS on non-UK patients. They included 674 liver, 47 kidney and 57 cornea operations. European law requires that NHS hospitals give EU patients the same access to services as UK patients.

Discuss.
I have to be honest i decided to cancell my Donor Card because even though the sale and purchase of organs is not allowed in the UK , Money changed hands when patients were treated privately when they received an organ transplant. And i personally feel this is morally wrong.
Making money out of people organs who signed a card to give another person a gift of life is totally disgraceful .
 
#13
I was just nosing about regards to this and the situation - as always - seems to be EU based.

The EHIC is issued in various forms throughout the EU. Now I can only find info about its general use on wiki at the minute, but it quotes.

The European Health Insurance Card (or EHIC) allows anyone who is insured by or covered by a statutory social security scheme of the EEA countries and Switzerland to receive medical treatment in another member state for free or at a reduced cost, if that treatment becomes necessary during their visit (for example, due to illness or an accident), or if they have a pre-existing chronic condition which requires care such as kidney dialysis.

If this is correct then surely this falls within pre-existing chronic condition.

On the NHS EHIC site it says the EHIC does not cover - all your medical costs and Remember: overseas state-provided healthcare may not cover things you receive for free on the NHS.

This suggests (As is often the case) that there is no parity between the UK and EU states.

A friends wife actually works within the donor area and last weekend we were discussing foreign nationals and the NHS but she didn't mention anything about donors, instead saving her wrath for the ones coming over to give birth to their children. This discussion fired by another friend who lives in Thailand and has just come back to the UK for the birth of their second son.

I guess this is just a downside with having the beast that is th NHS.
 
#14
The_Coming_Man said:
Swiss_Toni said:
Surely organs for transplant have a very limited shelf life. If a suitable properly tissue matched UK recipient cannot be found within that 'window of opportunity' it makes sense to let someone else who is a good match have it irrespective of where they are from.
Agreed,but organs freely donated for altruistic reasons should never be sold for profit.
But then folks would complain they were getting it on the NHS!! If they're not entitled to NHS treatment OF COURSE they have to pay for it privately!!
 
#15
The_Coming_Man said:
Swiss_Toni said:
Surely organs for transplant have a very limited shelf life. If a suitable properly tissue matched UK recipient cannot be found within that 'window of opportunity' it makes sense to let someone else who is a good match have it irrespective of where they are from.
Agreed,but organs freely donated for altruistic reasons should never be sold for profit.
Although donated, there are costs involved to the NHS in collecting and transplanting the organ - transplant co-ordinators, theatre time, anaesthetists, surgeons, theatre nurses, ODP's, cleaning staff, equipment, disposables for all of the above, ITU staff, lab costs in tissue typing, transport of organ from A to B which will involve ambulances, and even police escorts and helicopters, that's just a few of the things that have to be paid for.

I do think the NHS should charge non UK tax-payers for the associated costs of receiving an organ. What you'll probably find is the cost is covered by another department of health or insurance company.

I don't have a problem with the organ being given to a non UK taxpayer if nobody else needs it (and as I said, I used to be involved in the nuts and bolts of it, as an ITU and theatre nurse). As somebody else said, the window of opportunity is small - a few hours. If the family are good enough to allow the organs to be donated, it seems a shame to then chuck them in an incinerator because the person who the organ matched did not have the correct passport.
 
#16
you'd think that the Labour party would have learned with the British jobs for British workers debacle that populist ideas like this will come back and bite them in the arse. I'm guessing that this review will not be looking into the number of organs that are donated in Europe and given to UK patients because that will not allow them to look tough in the eyes of the Sun reading classes.
 
#17
The_Coming_Man said:
Thats why I binned my doner card.
I'll put my cards on the table and say I don't carry one due to the simple reason I have no say in who gets my organs .

If the govt make it compulsary to donate organs unless you explicity state your refusal and this is going on I'd refuse point blank to have my organs taken from me
 
#18
Spanny said:
The_Coming_Man said:
Thats why I binned my doner card.
I'll put my cards on the table and say I don't carry one due to the simple reason I have no say in who gets my organs .

If the govt make it compulsary to donate organs unless you explicity state your refusal and this is going on I'd refuse point blank to have my organs taken from me
So, to carry your illogical argument to it's logical conclusion, you never want to have a blood transfusion, and would refuse it because you can't know who it came from?

Go on, if you don't want to give, you can't say you are happy to receive. :roll:
 
#19
Swiss_Toni said:
Surely organs for transplant have a very limited shelf life. If a suitable properly tissue matched UK recipient cannot be found within that 'window of opportunity' it makes sense to let someone else who is a good match have it irrespective of where they are from.
About ten years ago there was a debate raging in the US about organ donors... would the doctors continue to fight for your life, if they knew you were a donor.

In a similar way, if someone is going to make money out of your bits and pieces will they

a. fight as hard to keep you on this mortal coil?
b. fight as hard to find a "un-paying" receipiant?

As mentioned above, an organ freely donated should not be charged for at ANY point. Whether that be leaving or coming in to this country.

Unless we start harvesting organs from the prison population... it would be nice if they could give something back to the country.
 
#20
chocolate_frog said:
Swiss_Toni said:
Surely organs for transplant have a very limited shelf life. If a suitable properly tissue matched UK recipient cannot be found within that 'window of opportunity' it makes sense to let someone else who is a good match have it irrespective of where they are from.
About ten years ago there was a debate raging in the US about organ donors... would the doctors continue to fight for your life, if they knew you were a donor...
That is what bothers me, particularly as my blood group is 0 neg. I could imagine the situation arising of a Dr. being faced with a choice of maybe letting a patient die and using their bits and pieces to save several lives. Tough call.

Then it is possible that money is a consideration. Pretty worrying.
 

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