Foreign/EU firearms laws

ugly

LE
Moderator
#1
I intend to ask around my contacts and am hoping that you can all contribute info about EU and other possibly commonwealth firearms laws. This will be of great help for those considering emigrating or going on a shooting holiday.
I'll start with the French. This was taken from a PM from a friend living in France this year;

FRENCH FIREARMS CONTROL!

1) Clubs; You should be a member of a Target Shooting Club ( Club de TIR ) or a Hunt (Association de Chasse ) If you only want to own Low powered Airguns or Black Powder REPLICAS then this is not necessary

2) Categories;

#1 – All military calibre weapons including pistols and revolvers.Semi auto pistols. Pump action RIFLES. This includes ammunition.
#4 – ALL Rimfire / Centrefire handguns no matter what the calibre.
#5 – Hunting Rifles, Military Rifles that have been converted to a Hunting Calibre, Shotguns except Garden Guns (9mm not requiring a permit) Black Powder in line rifles that are not copies of antique weapons.
#7 - .22 rimfire rifles, some small calibre shotguns and high powered Air Rifles. CO2 Pistols. Self defence handguns (Soft Gomm)
#8 – Free to buy. Black powder copies of original RIFLES/REVOLVERS/HAND GUNS.

Pump Action Shotguns are Illegal.

#1 & 4; You must have been a member of a club for a minimum of 6 months, have passed a multi choice test about safety and satisfy the committee that you are a competent member. They will send, on your request, an application for you to own a weapon to the local prefecture who, on agreeing with the request will forward it to the local Gendarmerie who SHOULD rubber stamp the application.

#5; You must have been a member of a club for a minimum of 6 months, have passed a multi choice test about safety and satisfy the committee that you are a competent member. You can then buy any weapon in the category and shoot it at the club. There are normally no restrictions on ammo stocked.

PAPERWORK.

Your Target Licence – Licence Fédérale – lasts from 1st September to 31st August each year and mine costs 85€ ( about £67 ) and includes insurance, club membership and licence fee. This must be signed by the holder, their doctor and the club president for it to be legal.
You also get a Carnet de TIR which is stamped and signed by the club 3 times a year to say you are a safe shooter.

Can’t say about the hunting (Chasse) paper requirements but they will be similar. Be warned though, French hunters are NOT like English hunters – the are basic hooligans and just want to kill anything that moves – including each other and their dogs sometimes! It’s quite regularly reported in the papers.

See www.fftir.fr
 
#2
From the Singapore perspective, where the cost of shooting works out at about one-third that of the UK :D Only drawback I find is the absence of fullbore rifle although there are no problems whatosever with fullbore pistol.

National authority for shooting is the Singapore Shooting Association

http://www.singaporeshooting.org/

Joining an affiliated club such as the Singapore Rifle Assoc. will set you back around S$1,500 - 1,800 and annual membership fees are around S$400. Locker for storing weapons is S$10 per month and range fees are S$15 per shoot. Cost of ammunition (must be ordered through the club) varies but for e.g. .22 lr expect to pay between S$0.30 - S$0.60 per round.

Licensing Authority - Singapore Police

http://www.spf.gov.sg/licence/frameset_AE.html

Cost of a licence is S$200 for 2 yrs.

cheers

lancslad
 
#3
From the land of clogs:

Airguns: Free to own but must be over 18 to purchase, power unlimited although this is currently under review. Some sort of license is being talked about for high power PCP rifles.

Firearms licensing procedure:
1. Must be a member of the KNSA (national shooting association).

2. Must be a member of a registered shooting club for 1 year and be over 18. During this year you may use club firearms according to local club regulations.

3. Once your probation year is up, you may apply for your license by purchasing 1 firearm, this requires an application form signed by the dealer and your club committee which you present to the cop shop. They then issue your license with which you go to pick up your new shiny gat, then it is back to the cop shop so they can check the serial number of said gat.

4. For the first year of your license, you may only own 1 firearm and corresponding ammo, once this year is up, you may own up to 5 providing you can proove you shoot at least 18 times a year (via a stamp book). The 5 firearm limit can be exceeded if you can proove you need them for competition.

5. License must be renewed annually.

General rules:
Ammo and firearms must be in separate locked safes or separate locked compartements in the same safe. Technically two people at the same address both with licenses must not have access to each others safes.....but there are ways around that.

Repro blackpowder firearms are subject to licensing.

Calibre conversion kits do not count as separate firearms.

Semi autos allowed, must be newly built as semi-auto or a down conversion if it was within the country prior to 2005 (i.e your can't import an ex-issue AK and have it limited to semi-auto)


Antiques (Black powder):

Anything goes if manufactured pre 1870.
All muzzleloaders made before 1945 are free.
All Cartridge revolvers post 1870 are licensed.
All BP cartridge rifles and shotguns before 1945 are free.
All BP cartridge single shot pistols before 1945 are free.

.22RF is the only exception, only cartridge firearms chambered for .22Short fall within the pre 1945 band. 22L and 22LR are licensed even if prior to 1945.

Round ball/shot is free to own, "pointy" bullets an ammo for antique cartridge firearms must be written on your license but don't count towards your total number of firearms (I have about 15 antique calibres on my ticket).

There are separate rules for canons and BP machineguns.

I am not familiar with the hunting license issue, but I think you are allowed 5 firearms max. on that too.

Could go on for ever but PM if you want more details.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
Thanks folks, keep them coming I would like to see what the exchange rates are roughly for singapore dollars!
 
#5
At the moment 1 GBP will get you S$2.62....

Reinforcing that point and the "value for money" index over here, one of the members of the club I'm in, when he left to work full-time in Shenzhen, was generous enough to sell me his Anschutz for the princely sum of S$800 & only last week I was offered a 1911 .45 Springfield Armoury for S$500....

lancslad
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
Cheap guns but expensive fees, I take it hand loading is a no no?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#8
As long as you are an EU resident/citizen/subject of a member country then local laws apply. In France that means that you have to take your hunting/quarry test in French!
Being a Brit living in France entitles you under law to everything the french have provided you pay tax and work.
UK laws dont apply to brits abroad over local laws!
That said if the frogs like you they ensure that only the laws they like apply to you! After all they only obey the laws that can be enforced! :roll:

The efp has been around for over 10 years if not longer, its an attempt to make our legislation which requires sponsored visitors permits fit in the EU EFP system which it actually doesnt at the moment.
FACE has fought the German sponsored banning of free movement of antiques ammendment as none of them can agree what is an antique. These ammendments are designed to make movement of sporting and target weapons easier by clubs and individuals and harder for dealers flogging lots of AKs to Africa!
 
#9
ugly said:
Cheap guns but expensive fees, I take it hand loading is a no no?
Ref hand loading - not something I've encountered here nor to be honest something I've actually looked into. I'll be up at the range on Sat am so will find out from the range mgr.

Interested to read that the fees here in S'pore are considered expensive. Never really had much opportunity to shoot privately in the UK (combination of factors inc the fact I've been out here for 7+ yrs) but a Brit pal who regularly shoots with me used to frequent Bisley (his preference I believe was 1,500m...). Based upon his comments I understood the cost of shooting here to be significantly cheaper. With that in mind what would be the typical costs in the UK these days?

lancslad
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#10
That would be 1200 yards unless he is shooting from amongst the caravans behind stickledown!
Fees vary but an FAC is for 5 years and about £56, clubs tend to vary costs mine is £26 per year and I can shoot monthly at practise and twice monthly at comps as a rule. All at Bisley or other ranges and range fees tend to be about £4 to £10 per 1/2 day through the club.
Ammo is cheap for factory fmj at the moment but rising and soft point for hunting is very pricey. I tend to hand load getting 6.5 soft point at about 16 to 20 pence per shot!
I have been in clubs where membership is around £100 per year but these tend to have their own ranges and dont do Bisley regularly!
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#11
[/b]
ugly said:
I intend to ask around my contacts and am hoping that you can all contribute info about EU and other possibly commonwealth firearms laws. This will be of great help for those considering emigrating or going on a shooting holiday.
I'll start with the French. This was taken from a PM from a friend living in France this year;

Note - there is a fair bit of local interpretation on laws in France - but not on the fundamentals

FRENCH FIREARMS CONTROL!

1) Clubs; You should be a member of a Target Shooting Club ( Club de TIR ) or a Hunt (Association de Chasse ) If you only want to own Low powered Airguns or Black Powder REPLICAS then this is not necessary
You need an FFTIR competition license for target shooting - EUR 36 every September for me, plus club fees (I pay EUR 49). A club is needed to sponsor you every year and the only additional thing needed is a signature on the back from your GP saying you are physically and mentally fit. The other option is a Permis de Chasse - via a practical and theory multi choice test. You do not need to be a member of any hunting group to take the exam and it is a one off. You now also need a Permis de Chasse to shoot on your own land. Foreign hunting licenses should in theory by recognised. This would work no problem with a holiday hunt properly organised by a travel company - but would be iffy on a private basis

Note. UK 12 ft/lb air rifles are cat 7 in France. Air rifles are not popular as a small calibre rimfire or centerfire rifle is the same hassle and is far more manly.

2) Categories;

#1 – All military calibre weapons including pistols and revolvers.Semi auto pistols. Pump action RIFLES. This includes ammunition.
#4 – ALL Rimfire / Centrefire handguns no matter what the calibre.
#5 – Hunting Rifles, Military Rifles that have been converted to a Hunting Calibre, Shotguns except Garden Guns (9mm not requiring a permit) Black Powder in line rifles that are not copies of antique weapons.
#7 - .22 rimfire rifles, some small calibre shotguns and high powered Air Rifles. CO2 Pistols. Self defence handguns (Soft Gomm)
#8 – Free to buy. Black powder copies of original RIFLES/REVOLVERS/HAND GUNS.
Anything older than 1896 is exempt (normally).

With an FFTIR license you can buy any category weapon - but cat 1 and 4 require a carnet de tir (6 month attendence record stamped by your club every 2 months) and a pre-authorisation to purchase from the prefecture. Cat 5 weapons (not all) must be declared to the prefecture only after purchase (shop normally does it for you). There is some additional detail, such as an O/U or S/S shotgun does not fall in cat 5 as declarably, but a 3 shot semi-auto does....

Pump Action Shotguns are Illegal.

#1 & 4; You must have been a member of a club for a minimum of 6 months, have passed a multi choice test about safety and satisfy the committee that you are a competent member. They will send, on your request, an application for you to own a weapon to the local prefecture who, on agreeing with the request will forward it to the local Gendarmerie who SHOULD rubber stamp the application.
Not quite correct. The club sponsor your application when then think you are competent - minimum 3 months. The club only apply for your FFTIR license and provide a carnet de tir - all purchasing and dealings with the prefecture are up to you. The gendarmerie only have a formal role in checking your security arrangements for cat 1 and 4 weapons. However the prefecture will contact them to verify any criminal record - this is transparent to you though

#5; You must have been a member of a club for a minimum of 6 months, have passed a multi choice test about safety and satisfy the committee that you are a competent member. You can then buy any weapon in the category and shoot it at the club. There are normally no restrictions on ammo stocked.
No official test exists - this can only be a local thing. Ammo (some) is limited to purchase which is why everyone handloads

PAPERWORK.

Your Target Licence – Licence Fédérale – lasts from 1st September to 31st August each year and mine costs 85€ ( about £67 ) and includes insurance, club membership and licence fee. This must be signed by the holder, their doctor and the club president for it to be legal.
You also get a Carnet de TIR which is stamped and signed by the club 3 times a year to say you are a safe shooter.
Carnet de tir is 3 times in 6 months and is only needed for pistols and military calibre cat 1 and 4 weapons

Can’t say about the hunting (Chasse) paper requirements but they will be similar. Be warned though, French hunters are NOT like English hunters – the are basic hooligans and just want to kill anything that moves – including each other and their dogs sometimes! It’s quite regularly reported in the papers.
There has been a big tightening on hunting regs in France the last few years due to a lot of accidents. Everyone now has to take the official Permis de Chasse test even to shot on their own or private land. Orange bibs must by worn when stalking (yeah right!) or driving game - officially anywhere not designated as a hunting zone. Note. You can practice the test online - after a while you can memorise all the answers ;-)

As for the other categories?......Well if you own for example a tank with a working main armament, you can have it on your driveway - but you must store the breech mechanism/key firing working parts at the gendarmerie!

See www.fftir.fr
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#12
ugly said:
As long as you are an EU resident/citizen/subject of a member country then local laws apply. In France that means that you have to take your hunting/quarry test in French!
Being a Brit living in France entitles you under law to everything the french have provided you pay tax and work.
UK laws dont apply to brits abroad over local laws!
That said if the frogs like you they ensure that only the laws they like apply to you! After all they only obey the laws that can be enforced! :roll:

The efp has been around for over 10 years if not longer, its an attempt to make our legislation which requires sponsored visitors permits fit in the EU EFP system which it actually doesnt at the moment.
FACE has fought the German sponsored banning of free movement of antiques ammendment as none of them can agree what is an antique. These ammendments are designed to make movement of sporting and target weapons easier by clubs and individuals and harder for dealers flogging lots of AKs to Africa!
I have a German and a French issued EFP. The only problem I have had is purchasing additional ammo in some EU countries shops - but no problems moving weapons or hundreds of rounds back and forth so now I bring enough with to start a coup in Lichtenstein....;-)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
Thanks for the clarification Alsacien, this is what this bit is for!
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#14
Ze German vay:

Health advisory
Do not bother if you cannot speak German, do not like filling in forms, do not like endless illogical procedures and fees, do not have plenty of patience and are not in a rush to get anything more powerful than an airgun.

Jagdschein - hunting license. (For those who like wearing green felt).
I don't have one so this is second hand from a mate who does.
Be a member of a hunting association/club - membership fee includes liability insurance which is a must have to shoot in Germany. They will put you on probation for a year before you can be a member. Pass the rather comphrensive test after completing a very comprehensive course - best done buy paying and extortionate fee for a residential course. Other option is via your association but takes ages.
After you can buy anything within reason, but each new purchase has to be approved someone nominated by the regional hunting association (form and fee) then approved by the ordnungsamt (form and fee). Pistols are also allowed (coup de grace).

Waffenbesiztkarte. (Note this is a Weapon Holders Card - a Waffenschein is a weapons permit only given to bodyguards etc).
This waffenbesiztkarte is for sport shooting which is handled under either the DSB (most common) or BDS shooting regulations - check which your potential club is affiliated to as this dictates what disciplines you can shoot and what weapons you can buy.
Probation for one year before being given membership. You may shoot club guns or borrowed guns officially always under supervision. I was shooting my French guns on my French EFP without hassle.
Towards the end of the probation year (or whenever it is arranged in your region) you need to take the sackkundeprufung course over a weekend (form and fee).
This is 16 hours of dull, dull, dull stuff about firearms basics (yawn) and German law - you may get so bored you consider ending it all or even killing yourself at this point.....and its all in German. There is a special course for septics with POF's (Privately Owned Firearms) in English - but only possible for septic serving and ex-military as the application is processed via the septic military.
The next weekend is the sachkundeprunfung exam - multi guess 70% pass mark, and handling/firing practical safety test. If you pass you get a certificate.
With your certificate, club membership club and schiesslogbuch showing 18+ visits in the last year to the range you can apply for a gat (up to 2 in the first year).
Fill in the form full of really stupid questions saying what you want to buy, which discipline you will use it to compete/train in, pay the fee and send via the club to the kreisschutzenmeister to approve. When he approves you pay another fee (2 IIRC) fill in forms in triplicate including details such as your mothers birth weight and send it to the ordnungsamt and you get your card with the permission to purchase - or not. I had a whole bunch of stupid extra questions to answer first before they processed it.
The jerry logic says you would only need to buy a sporting firearm to train and compete in that sporting discipline - otherwise you do not need it. Bear this in mind.
After 3 years of logging 18+ visits a year to the range life gets easier....
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#15
Ah the Germans, there is an expat Hunter on this site somewhere, when I am together I'll get him to write up his Jagdschein experiences.
 
#16
The gun laws here in Denmark are quite complicated.

You can buy a shotgun if you've passed your hunting test (both theory and a practical test on clays), or if you are a member of a clay shooting club.

Rifles can be bought by hunters too, but they've got to pass a rifle shooting test (I believe it's five shots within 20cm at 100 metres) before they can hunt with them. Members of rifle clubs can of course also purchase rifles.

Hunters may use semi-autos, but their magazines must be restricted to two shot capacity, and permanently attached to the weapon.

If you want to shoot pistols you have to join a pistol club and shoot with club weapons for two years before you can apply for permission to buy your own.

All rifled weapons are subject to registration (and perhaps shotguns too now, but I'm not sure).

Gun permits cost 800kr (about 130 USD) for the first gun, and 400 for each additional gun.

You can also obtain your permit through a shooting club, in which case they cost 150kr per gun.

If you want to reload you will need an additional permit.

Breechloading weapons with a model or manufacture date before 1892 can be held on a collectors permit, but no ammunition may be held for any weapons held as collectors items.

Original muzzle loaders (pre-1870) can be held without restriction, but modern copies require a licence.

Air weapons are at present free of restriction for those over 18, but some legislation on power levels is on it's way.

CO2 weapons, which are not Paintball or airsoft weapons require a licence.

I think that about covers the basics.

Regards
T_T
 
#17
a really good, much needed thread, had often wondered what the laws were in other countries; maybe UK laws pre 1988 weren't that bad in comparison.

Curious though: what's the problem the French have with pump action shotguns?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
Not sure why they dont have them but we banned rifled barreled pump and auto shotguns in the 88 panic after Michael Ryan proved that Thames Valley Firearms Licensing was ineffectual.
 
#19
ugly said:
Not sure why they dont have them but we banned rifled barreled pump and auto shotguns in the 88 panic after Michael Ryan proved that Thames Valley Firearms Licensing was ineffectual.
had to be because Hurd didn't like the SPAS12...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
The last Home secretary to stand up to ACPO was Leon Brittain. Funny that a politician with a spine!
 

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