Foreign/EU firearms laws

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by ugly, Aug 20, 2008.

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  1. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    I intend to ask around my contacts and am hoping that you can all contribute info about EU and other possibly commonwealth firearms laws. This will be of great help for those considering emigrating or going on a shooting holiday.
    I'll start with the French. This was taken from a PM from a friend living in France this year;

     
  2. From the Singapore perspective, where the cost of shooting works out at about one-third that of the UK :D Only drawback I find is the absence of fullbore rifle although there are no problems whatosever with fullbore pistol.

    National authority for shooting is the Singapore Shooting Association

    http://www.singaporeshooting.org/

    Joining an affiliated club such as the Singapore Rifle Assoc. will set you back around S$1,500 - 1,800 and annual membership fees are around S$400. Locker for storing weapons is S$10 per month and range fees are S$15 per shoot. Cost of ammunition (must be ordered through the club) varies but for e.g. .22 lr expect to pay between S$0.30 - S$0.60 per round.

    Licensing Authority - Singapore Police

    http://www.spf.gov.sg/licence/frameset_AE.html

    Cost of a licence is S$200 for 2 yrs.

    cheers

    lancslad
     
  3. From the land of clogs:

    Airguns: Free to own but must be over 18 to purchase, power unlimited although this is currently under review. Some sort of license is being talked about for high power PCP rifles.

    Firearms licensing procedure:
    1. Must be a member of the KNSA (national shooting association).

    2. Must be a member of a registered shooting club for 1 year and be over 18. During this year you may use club firearms according to local club regulations.

    3. Once your probation year is up, you may apply for your license by purchasing 1 firearm, this requires an application form signed by the dealer and your club committee which you present to the cop shop. They then issue your license with which you go to pick up your new shiny gat, then it is back to the cop shop so they can check the serial number of said gat.

    4. For the first year of your license, you may only own 1 firearm and corresponding ammo, once this year is up, you may own up to 5 providing you can proove you shoot at least 18 times a year (via a stamp book). The 5 firearm limit can be exceeded if you can proove you need them for competition.

    5. License must be renewed annually.

    General rules:
    Ammo and firearms must be in separate locked safes or separate locked compartements in the same safe. Technically two people at the same address both with licenses must not have access to each others safes.....but there are ways around that.

    Repro blackpowder firearms are subject to licensing.

    Calibre conversion kits do not count as separate firearms.

    Semi autos allowed, must be newly built as semi-auto or a down conversion if it was within the country prior to 2005 (i.e your can't import an ex-issue AK and have it limited to semi-auto)


    Antiques (Black powder):

    Anything goes if manufactured pre 1870.
    All muzzleloaders made before 1945 are free.
    All Cartridge revolvers post 1870 are licensed.
    All BP cartridge rifles and shotguns before 1945 are free.
    All BP cartridge single shot pistols before 1945 are free.

    .22RF is the only exception, only cartridge firearms chambered for .22Short fall within the pre 1945 band. 22L and 22LR are licensed even if prior to 1945.

    Round ball/shot is free to own, "pointy" bullets an ammo for antique cartridge firearms must be written on your license but don't count towards your total number of firearms (I have about 15 antique calibres on my ticket).

    There are separate rules for canons and BP machineguns.

    I am not familiar with the hunting license issue, but I think you are allowed 5 firearms max. on that too.

    Could go on for ever but PM if you want more details.
     
  4. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Thanks folks, keep them coming I would like to see what the exchange rates are roughly for singapore dollars!
     
  5. At the moment 1 GBP will get you S$2.62....

    Reinforcing that point and the "value for money" index over here, one of the members of the club I'm in, when he left to work full-time in Shenzhen, was generous enough to sell me his Anschutz for the princely sum of S$800 & only last week I was offered a 1911 .45 Springfield Armoury for S$500....

    lancslad
     
  6. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Cheap guns but expensive fees, I take it hand loading is a no no?
     
  7. http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/regulation/goods/dir91477_en.htm

    Expect more nonsense soon.

    Remember that any state can impose harsher rules and citizens of the EU drag their native legislation around with them. So a Brit living in France cannot access firearms in the same way as the French can.

    However, that rule is often overlooked or ignored
     
  8. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    As long as you are an EU resident/citizen/subject of a member country then local laws apply. In France that means that you have to take your hunting/quarry test in French!
    Being a Brit living in France entitles you under law to everything the french have provided you pay tax and work.
    UK laws dont apply to brits abroad over local laws!
    That said if the frogs like you they ensure that only the laws they like apply to you! After all they only obey the laws that can be enforced! :roll:

    The efp has been around for over 10 years if not longer, its an attempt to make our legislation which requires sponsored visitors permits fit in the EU EFP system which it actually doesnt at the moment.
    FACE has fought the German sponsored banning of free movement of antiques ammendment as none of them can agree what is an antique. These ammendments are designed to make movement of sporting and target weapons easier by clubs and individuals and harder for dealers flogging lots of AKs to Africa!
     
  9. Ref hand loading - not something I've encountered here nor to be honest something I've actually looked into. I'll be up at the range on Sat am so will find out from the range mgr.

    Interested to read that the fees here in S'pore are considered expensive. Never really had much opportunity to shoot privately in the UK (combination of factors inc the fact I've been out here for 7+ yrs) but a Brit pal who regularly shoots with me used to frequent Bisley (his preference I believe was 1,500m...). Based upon his comments I understood the cost of shooting here to be significantly cheaper. With that in mind what would be the typical costs in the UK these days?

    lancslad
     
  10. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    That would be 1200 yards unless he is shooting from amongst the caravans behind stickledown!
    Fees vary but an FAC is for 5 years and about £56, clubs tend to vary costs mine is £26 per year and I can shoot monthly at practise and twice monthly at comps as a rule. All at Bisley or other ranges and range fees tend to be about £4 to £10 per 1/2 day through the club.
    Ammo is cheap for factory fmj at the moment but rising and soft point for hunting is very pricey. I tend to hand load getting 6.5 soft point at about 16 to 20 pence per shot!
    I have been in clubs where membership is around £100 per year but these tend to have their own ranges and dont do Bisley regularly!
     
  11. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

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  12. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    I have a German and a French issued EFP. The only problem I have had is purchasing additional ammo in some EU countries shops - but no problems moving weapons or hundreds of rounds back and forth so now I bring enough with to start a coup in Lichtenstein....;-)
     
  13. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Thanks for the clarification Alsacien, this is what this bit is for!
     
  14. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Ze German vay:

    Health advisory
    Do not bother if you cannot speak German, do not like filling in forms, do not like endless illogical procedures and fees, do not have plenty of patience and are not in a rush to get anything more powerful than an airgun.

    Jagdschein - hunting license. (For those who like wearing green felt).
    I don't have one so this is second hand from a mate who does.
    Be a member of a hunting association/club - membership fee includes liability insurance which is a must have to shoot in Germany. They will put you on probation for a year before you can be a member. Pass the rather comphrensive test after completing a very comprehensive course - best done buy paying and extortionate fee for a residential course. Other option is via your association but takes ages.
    After you can buy anything within reason, but each new purchase has to be approved someone nominated by the regional hunting association (form and fee) then approved by the ordnungsamt (form and fee). Pistols are also allowed (coup de grace).

    Waffenbesiztkarte. (Note this is a Weapon Holders Card - a Waffenschein is a weapons permit only given to bodyguards etc).
    This waffenbesiztkarte is for sport shooting which is handled under either the DSB (most common) or BDS shooting regulations - check which your potential club is affiliated to as this dictates what disciplines you can shoot and what weapons you can buy.
    Probation for one year before being given membership. You may shoot club guns or borrowed guns officially always under supervision. I was shooting my French guns on my French EFP without hassle.
    Towards the end of the probation year (or whenever it is arranged in your region) you need to take the sackkundeprufung course over a weekend (form and fee).
    This is 16 hours of dull, dull, dull stuff about firearms basics (yawn) and German law - you may get so bored you consider ending it all or even killing yourself at this point.....and its all in German. There is a special course for septics with POF's (Privately Owned Firearms) in English - but only possible for septic serving and ex-military as the application is processed via the septic military.
    The next weekend is the sachkundeprunfung exam - multi guess 70% pass mark, and handling/firing practical safety test. If you pass you get a certificate.
    With your certificate, club membership club and schiesslogbuch showing 18+ visits in the last year to the range you can apply for a gat (up to 2 in the first year).
    Fill in the form full of really stupid questions saying what you want to buy, which discipline you will use it to compete/train in, pay the fee and send via the club to the kreisschutzenmeister to approve. When he approves you pay another fee (2 IIRC) fill in forms in triplicate including details such as your mothers birth weight and send it to the ordnungsamt and you get your card with the permission to purchase - or not. I had a whole bunch of stupid extra questions to answer first before they processed it.
    The jerry logic says you would only need to buy a sporting firearm to train and compete in that sporting discipline - otherwise you do not need it. Bear this in mind.
    After 3 years of logging 18+ visits a year to the range life gets easier....
     
  15. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Ah the Germans, there is an expat Hunter on this site somewhere, when I am together I'll get him to write up his Jagdschein experiences.