Foreign Doctors just aren't good enough.

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#1
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23245607
I know a number of examples of Doctors and Nurses over the years who just aren't fit to practice.
I hope common sense will prevail and it will eventually be looked at the differences in training.
I've heard of foreign practitioners sharing a qualification and I think it really can't be that hard to stop. Regulators take plenty of money from us to protect the public but they don't actually protect the public.
Salaries and pensions have been cut in the UK, does anyone care that practitioners move abroad and what replaces them won't be good enough?
 
#4
I couldn't pass one of them medical exams, it's all Greek to me.
 
#5
I would have thought a good start is that people trained BY the NHS own a certain number of years of service TO the NHS. So if they want to sod off abroad or to BUPA before that time (twenty years seems reasonable) then they have to reimburse the public for the full cost of their training.
 
#8
My missus is in the James Cook University Hospital in Middlesbrough - she had a partial mastectomy on Friday, and had some minor complications on Saturday, so the nurse said she'd get a doctor in to see her.

It took over 12 hours and the threat of PAMS (?) to get a doctor in to the ward to see her 'because it's a week-end'.

And this is one of the major hospitals in the area....
 
#11
I would have thought a good start is that people trained BY the NHS own a certain number of years of service TO the NHS. So if they want to sod off abroad or to BUPA before that time (twenty years seems reasonable) then they have to reimburse the public for the full cost of their training.
They're not strictly trained by the NHS, before being "Junior Doctor, your life in their hands", they get a Batchelors in Medicine (or surgery) at any one of a number of universities, then go on to work in a junior capacity (previously Junior and Senior House officer, no doubt this has changed name but not role) which is basically on the job training at a ridiculously low rate of pay, but horrendous workload. This is as close a "gift" the NHS give them.

Any Doctor completing GMC registration has earned the right to work where they want, NHS or otherwise.
 
#12
They're not strictly trained by the NHS, before being "Junior Doctor, your life in their hands", they get a Batchelors in Medicine (or surgery) at any one of a number of universities, then go on to work in a junior capacity (previously Junior and Senior House officer, no doubt this has changed name but not role) which is basically on the job training at a ridiculously low rate of pay, but horrendous workload. This is as close a "gift" the NHS give them.

Any Doctor completing GMC registration has earned the right to work where they want, NHS or otherwise.
Obviously the ones shelling out their own cash for their degrees and training would be exempt from such a scheme.
 
#13
Obviously the ones shelling out their own cash for their degrees and training would be exempt from such a scheme.
They get a student loan, previously a student grant, just like any other student; with the usual conditions. I gather medical degrees are exempt from the 9k a year cap because of the nature of course materials. I may be misinformed about that though

Students of which subjects should be made to both study and work for anything up to 100 hours a week for an extra 3 to 4 years after gaining their bachelors for the state before their degree is actually a usable professional qualification, for between 20k to 33k a year?
 

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
Wether a doctor is foreign or not does not matter, you have either good doctors or bad doctors from every nationality, i have met a fair few of them at the luton and dunstable hospital, now renamed the lethal and deadly.
What does matter is that the doctor can speak concise english so that an elderly patient can understand him, and the staff.
This is one reason why patients and families get upset, they cant understand what the doctor is saying, it may be he or she is doing a very good job but because you cant understand him he is classed as not good enough, the same could be said with the influx of african nurses with heavy accents and booming voices. who like us brits tend to shout when people dont understand us.
Now waiting to see a doctor for more than a few hours is usualy down to bad hospital policy and does not mean the doctor is no good, unless its like the doc who knowingly left me in pain at the l&d for 4 hours while walking of with my drug chart, the nurses asked him for it and he kept saying he would see me in 15mins, i waited 4 hours when all he had to do was give the chart to a nurse.
He got a very frosty reception from both myself and the sister in charge and i refused to let him take blood or examine me, i told him that i could not trust a doctor who knowingly letwa patient wait so long for pain relief.
I was into my second day of a non stemi mi when this happened.. a heart attack that does not show on an ecg, blood test had already shown positive that i was maybe still having one, but i have a habit of looking rather healthy even when seriously ill and i think he misjudged me and did not read my notes or ask the staff.
As said doctors are either good or bad, hospitals are the same, which is why i dread another emergency admission to the L&D

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DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
My missus is in the James Cook University Hospital in Middlesbrough - she had a partial mastectomy on Friday, and had some minor complications on Saturday, so the nurse said she'd get a doctor in to see her.

It took over 12 hours and the threat of PAMS (?) to get a doctor in to the ward to see her 'because it's a week-end'.

And this is one of the major hospitals in the area....
I hope she is doing ok now mucker and on the road to recovery.
It must of been hard and scarey, not just for her but for you too.


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#16
Wether a doctor is foreign or not does not matter, you have either good doctors or bad doctors from every nationality,
Glad someone mentioned that. I've worked with some bloody awful british doctors, and some really good foreign ones. Strangely, one of the better juniors I came across was a couple of years below me at school, and he was both a smarmy twat and a bloody idiot as a kid
 

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
I am actualy having heart surgery at Harefield next week, usualy i would be shitting myself by now but the foriegn born consultant doing the op is very good at his job and has probed around my heart and arteries a few times.
What is scareing me is the fact i am having a tooth taken out tommorow at another hospital and i have not met any of them before, my dentist is a whimp and is too scared i may have a problem with my heart.
There was a young french doc at my local hospital that was always being belittled by the registrar and an indian consultant, this gave the staff and patients the impression he was no good.
The indian doc told me ond day that there was nothing wronp with me and it was muscle pain, while waiting for my discharge letter i had some nasty pain, the nurse said it was nothing because the consultant said it was muscular, however the french doc. peter, saw i was in pain and told the petulant nurse to do an ecg, she did and twenty mins later h was blue lighted to Harefield.
The point here is that the younger guy was willing to listen and at least try to find ov what was going on instead of fobbing me off, the nurse tried to argue with him but he stood his ground and won the battle, and saved my life.
Incidently the indian consultant learnt from this and paid more attention to me on later admissions, this worked in my favour because on boxing day 2009 he also saved my life after his colleagues had managed to overdose me by adding extra beta blockers and ace inhibitor tablets over a 6 day period without removinp the other ones.
Its a funny old world :banghead:

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Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#18
They're not strictly trained by the NHS, before being "Junior Doctor, your life in their hands", they get a Batchelors in Medicine (or surgery) at any one of a number of universities, then go on to work in a junior capacity (previously Junior and Senior House officer, no doubt this has changed name but not role) which is basically on the job training at a ridiculously low rate of pay, but horrendous workload. This is as close a "gift" the NHS give them.

Any Doctor completing GMC registration has earned the right to work where they want, NHS or otherwise.
Just as an addition, I know I saw and treated plenty patients as a student. Including many who'd been referred into the dental hospital as too complex for general practice!
 
#19
I can cite plenty of examples of foreign doctors including consultants who are not fit to practice. Practice being the operative word. Language skills seem to be the main problem though that can mask skill deficiencies and numeracy skills although home grown doctors can be lacking as well.
Regulation in the NHS is a joke from purchasing to monitoring the efficacy of staff, sort of par for the course with something government designed to protect us from corruption and idiots.
As for salaries I believe they compare very well with overseas scales. Remember state side and in the Empire doctors have large insurance bills as well as other expenses. One friend of mine who was a doctor moved to the states to be with some one and he reckoned he was better off in the UK by some margin. (also reckoned most of his patients would have been as well).
for what it's worth my own opinion is that the NHS is a fine example of a British old boys network. Once your in the clan providing you tow the line you are backed to he hilt. Drop a bollock and the ranks close around you.
 
#20
Can I change the OP to "The quality of foreign doctors in the UK is just not good enough"

My wife is being treated here in Italy for breast cancer and has had tremendous treatment from Italian, Spanish and German doctors, all who are multi lingual, have had residency's in the States, U.K and other EU countries. The hospital is spotless and as you would expect food excellent. The situation that JoeCivvie described would be unheard off, a doctor is a phone call away 24 hrs a day.

JoeCivvie, hope everything is going fine, its a tough time but better times ahead.
 

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