Ford Motor Company - Is the Corporate decline inevitable?

#21
Depends who you talk to. They were working very hard at stripping out the tech and designs for Ford branding.

Jag was immensely overvalued when it was privatised. They used to buy in components to assemble as Jaguar cars. Many of the major components came from other factories in the British Motor Holdings empire. Components were delivered in some form of measurable, billable quantity - call it pallets, or stackable bins. In the originating factories they were instructed to overload the pallets, ie. if they ordinarily placed 20 left hand front wings on a pallet they were to squeeze on as many more as possible, often double the amount. When the pallet left the supplying factory it was billed to Jaguar as one pallet of 20. These were all collected at 'The Jag', as the place was called, and eventually audited with the actual number received being taken onto the books. So they were not paying for a vast amount of their components making them look much more profitable than they actually were. True story, my FiL was a foreman for 3 lines making Jag panels at Pressed Steel.
Ford was definitely penny pinching a lot, tried to employ mass scale by asking the various brands to use as many common parts as possible, which kinda diluted the different premium brands. Commonality works when it's stuff which can't be touched, seen or felt by consumers but when you plonk down all that extra cash for a Volvo or a Jag, you really don't to feel and drive like a Ford do you?

And in terms of off-road tech, it was BMW which was really interested in LR from that perspective. They didn't have any at all before they bought LR.
 
#22
Ford was definitely penny pinching a lot, tried to employ mass scale by asking the various brands to use as many common parts as possible, which kinda diluted the different premium brands. Commonality works when it's stuff which can't be touched, seen or felt by consumers but when you plonk down all that extra cash for a Volvo or a Jag, you really don't to feel and drive like a Ford do you?

And in terms of off-road tech, it was BMW which was really interested in LR from that perspective. They didn't have any at all before they bought LR.
I was asked along to Cowley after my PhD.;) Nice to visit but, too far to commute.

BMW had nothing but, Ford needed to update from those 1950's/1960's designs hidden under the bodywork. They both benefitted from a look at the tech and their use of the Gaydon test facility - I was poking Mini Coopers a year before they came to market and saw some other baggy cloth covered vehicles, the mini has been a nice overpriced boon for BMW.

Building cheap and cheerful Jags is nice for the aspirationals but, devalues the brand for those with the bigger wallet. It has always been shown that if you build expensive luxury vehicles you can make more money than building low end vehicles.
 
Last edited:
#23
Didn't know that Mahindra owns Peugeot motocycles . . . .
"In October 2014, Mahindra and Mahindra acquired a 51% controlling stake in Peugeot Motocycles.[12]"

"Mahindra takes an old French turn, buys 51% stakes on Peugeot Motocycles". dailybhasker.com. 9 October 2014. Retrieved 20 August 2015.

Mahindra & Mahindra - Wikipedia


"Peugeot Motocycles is a French scooters and small motorcycles manufacturer. The company operates as a subsidiary of Indian manufacturer Mahindra that owns 51% of Peugeot Motocycles since 2015. PSA Group owns 49% of Peugeot Motocycles and the use of its brand image".

Peugeot Motocycles - Wikipedia
 
#24
It was interesting to not a few years ago that Ford were still using the venerable Kent engine developed in 1959, almost entirely unchanged up to 2002 when it was finally replaced by the Duratec in the Fiesta. Which was past its' sell by date in the 90s, never mind by 2002.

Ford had some great stuff like the CVH engine -- allegedly Compound Valve Hemi-head but it really stood for "Constant Vibration and Harshness", especially the 1.4 "lean burn" with the carb that never worked properly.

I drove quite a few Transits prior to the Southampton factory being closed and they were good honest workhorses, better than the cars!
 
#25
. . . . I think Tata trucks is still under Tata.
That is annoying . . . I thought it strange at the time, but with no reason to doubt what I was reading, I was happy to quote what I saw :( .

I wish I had copied the www page, at the time.

I will look again, when I have more time.
 
#26
I’ve been working at a large car dealership in Australia that has Ford and Holden/GM franchises and other US based manufacturers as well as a lot of Asian car manufacturer franchises and European franchises. I’ve been working here for 15 years now.

From what I’ve seen, the American manufacturers really sat on their laurels 10-15 years ago while the Asians overtook them in leaps and bounds. I remember talking to a bunch of GM reps about 8 years ago, and it seemed to me that they were stuck in the 70’s, still thinking that Ford and themselves were the only game in Australia. Our Holden franchises have since shrunk considerably.

GM really buggered up the Holden franchise. The new Commodore (in name only) has been rather lukewarm (they should have called it something else) and at the moment they’ve got nothing going for them. Ford is holding out with the Ranger, and even the Mustang to a degree, but the small car market belongs to the Asians who capitalized on the unwillingness of the US manufacturers to improve their small cars a decade or so ago.

Don’t even mention Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Alfa/Fiat. Those pieces of crap have more issues than a newsagent, the only reason people buy them is for the brand name and the look (see a lot of them driving around the parts of town that are inhabited by Middle Eastern gentlemen). We still seem to be selling them to people who have more money than brains.
 
#27
Ford and VW have prosperous history - Ford Galaxy and VW Sharan (sp?) were a joint venture, made in a single plant.

Oh, and check out the VW Crafter and Mercedes Sprinter. Look similar? That's because they are identical, apart from the grille, dash and engine. Oh and the badges.

The auto industry has a long history of collaboration, when one company can't make a buck, but two can.
 
#28
Ford and VW have prosperous history - Ford Galaxy and VW Sharan (sp?) were a joint venture, made in a single plant.

Oh, and check out the VW Crafter and Mercedes Sprinter. Look similar? That's because they are identical, apart from the grille, dash and engine. Oh and the badges.

The auto industry has a long history of collaboration, when one company can't make a buck, but two can.
Lots of chassis and parts sharing, more so nowadays.

- VW Touareg - Porsche Cayenne ............................. during a head to head test the VW came out better than the Porker, and VW also won the Dakar with it.
- Jag S Type - Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, Ford Taurus
- Ferrari started dipping into the FIAT parts bin once they were amalgamated, seriously
- Ford Ranger - Mazda's pickup, mazda also knocked it out as a Ford in Japan for the home market.
- VW use the same chassis/floorpan for the Beetle and Golf
- FIAT Panda, 500,Ford Ka, Lancia Ypsilon all share the same chassis/floorpan
- FIAT 500 X - Jeep Renegade floorpan

Same with motorcycle makers sharing tech and engines.
 
#29
Lots of chassis and parts sharing, more so nowadays.

- VW Touareg - Porsche Cayenne ............................. during a head to head test the VW came out better than the Porker, and VW also won the Dakar with it.
- Jag S Type - Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, Ford Taurus
- Ferrari started dipping into the FIAT parts bin once they were amalgamated, seriously
- Ford Ranger - Mazda's pickup, mazda also knocked it out as a Ford in Japan for the home market.
- VW use the same chassis/floorpan for the Beetle and Golf
- FIAT Panda, 500,Ford Ka, Lancia Ypsilon all share the same chassis/floorpan
- FIAT 500 X - Jeep Renegade floorpan

Same with motorcycle makers sharing tech and engines.
Ford Explorer-Mazda tribute, same piece of cräp, different badges.....
 
#30
Not helped by the fact that you can't get a Mondeo or Focus anymore with a naturally-aspirated petrol engine. Buyers are shying away from diesel, and the problems with the EcoBOOM! put people off, even though Ford have largely sorted those out.

My old man fancied a new Focus, but the above has put him right off.
Very few NA petrol engines around in the mass market now: for the car makers, the lure of smaller capacity turbo petrol engines is too high.

That also applies further up the food chain

Mercedes-Benz M256 engine - Wikipedia
 
#31
Ford Escape-Mazda tribute, same piece of cräp, different badges.....
Ford have had design/production partnerships with Mazda for eon's as they used to own a fair wedge of the company.........they may still, dunno about nowadays, its been a while. But, yeah, the Escape is a piece of shite I had one for a couple of weeks as a rental once, it's like a biscuit tin, built as a 7/8 scale car, useless for full scale adults.

FYI: The company car blokes I used to bump into reckoned that the Mazda 626 was the best value for money car out there for high mileage corporate use, so for long term household use it was a gift. Just not sexy.
 
#32
Ford have had design/production partnerships with Mazda for eon's as they used to own a fair wedge of the company.........they may still, dunno about nowadays, its been a while. But, yeah, the Escape is a piece of shite I had one for a couple of weeks as a rental once, it's like a biscuit tin, built as a 7/8 scale car, useless for full scale adults.

FYI: The company car blokes I used to bump into reckoned that the Mazda 626 was the best value for money car out there for high mileage corporate use, so for long term household use it was a gift. Just not sexy.
Bit slow this evening , I always mix them up. The old girl has a Tribute and even though it is in excellent condition, it’s a money pit, and thankfully not mine....
 
#33
I just bought (subject to mechanical survey) a Ford Excursion this morning, so I hope they don't disappear. It's a 14 year-old beast of a machine. 6.8L V10 motor, 4x4, three rows of seats with proper legroom and still a load area the size of Texas. 249K miles and they'll do 3-350K before a rebuild is needed. At 13mpg it's still better than a Rover V8. If Ford still made these things, they'd have been out of business years ago :)

It was cheap as chips and I'm happy as Larry :)
 
#34
It'll certainly be interesting to see if anyone will still pay a massive premium for a VW badge on a panel van when the Transit is a close relation... my guess is that they still will.
 
#35
It'll certainly be interesting to see if anyone will still pay a massive premium for a VW badge on a panel van when the Transit is a close relation... my guess is that they still will.
But what will be the plan with the Transporter - much loved, iconic, beast that it is.
 
#36
I just bought (subject to mechanical survey) a Ford Excursion this morning, so I hope they don't disappear. It's a 14 year-old beast of a machine. 6.8L V10 motor, 4x4, three rows of seats with proper legroom and still a load area the size of Texas. 249K miles and they'll do 3-350K before a rebuild is needed. At 13mpg it's still better than a Rover V8. If Ford still made these things, they'd have been out of business years ago :)

It was cheap as chips and I'm happy as Larry :)
WTF do you need an Excursion/ F250 for?...still remember diving one of those powered by the 6.8, making around 300hp....about the same or less than a current 2.0L turbo....it sure felt unreal driving around that thing.

Still, will be easy to maintain and will go on for ever. Hope you don't plan on using that for long commutes...
 
#38
I’ve been working at a large car dealership in Australia that has Ford and Holden/GM franchises and other US based manufacturers as well as a lot of Asian car manufacturer franchises and European franchises. I’ve been working here for 15 years now.

From what I’ve seen, the American manufacturers really sat on their laurels 10-15 years ago while the Asians overtook them in leaps and bounds. I remember talking to a bunch of GM reps about 8 years ago, and it seemed to me that they were stuck in the 70’s, still thinking that Ford and themselves were the only game in Australia. Our Holden franchises have since shrunk considerably.

GM really buggered up the Holden franchise. The new Commodore (in name only) has been rather lukewarm (they should have called it something else) and at the moment they’ve got nothing going for them. Ford is holding out with the Ranger, and even the Mustang to a degree, but the small car market belongs to the Asians who capitalized on the unwillingness of the US manufacturers to improve their small cars a decade or so ago.

Don’t even mention Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Alfa/Fiat. Those pieces of crap have more issues than a newsagent, the only reason people buy them is for the brand name and the look (see a lot of them driving around the parts of town that are inhabited by Middle Eastern gentlemen). We still seem to be selling them to people who have more money than brains.
Well all Ford and Holdens are now imported and mostly Euro/ Thai based vehicles so...
 
#39
WTF do you need an Excursion/ F250 for?...still remember diving one of those powered by the 6.8, making around 300hp....about the same or less than a current 2.0L turbo....it sure felt unreal driving around that thing.

Still, will be easy to maintain and will go on for ever. Hope you don't plan on using that for long commutes...
Enough torque to alter the rotation of the Earth, I'd imagine.
 
#40
Oh, Ford tried to go upmarket alright! In a big way too! They owned, through the Premier Automotive Group (PAG) - Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Lincoln.

But they couldn't make it work.

The current crop of Ford vehicles are not bad, pretty decent interiors and *fantastic* driving dynamics - I recon, one of the best, if not the best, dynamics wise.
Actually Ford did make the up market brands work and arguably saved Volvo, JLR and Aston from going under. Their ownership legacy can still be seen in JLR and Aston. The Evoque /Disco Sport / E-Pace platform is a modified Focus platform. Jag & Aston V6, 8 & 12 engines are Ford built less the new Aston which is a Merc

Ford sold Aston, JLR and Volvo to raise cash to plug massive losses on their mainstream operations. I bet they regret it; all they are left with is Lincoln, a brand all the appeal of a plastic bag.

BTW AC was also part of PAG. The one that didn’t survive in a credible form.
 

Similar threads


Latest Threads

Top