Forces Financial query

Mighty_doh_nut · Dec 5, 2006

Forces Financial website reads:

link here

I recommended a friend to your site. On calling your free phone number he was told this is not the case and that he WOULD NOT be covered if he was under orders to deploy to the middle east.

For our benefit for for those who may be about to deploy and are under the impression they are covered can this please be mopped up and clarified.

Forces_Financial · Dec 6, 2006

Our position on this has never wavered â we offer immediate Personal Accident cover wherever you are deployed. This provides accidental death cover, and includes death by natural causes if you select the optional Life cover available with the Personal Accident policy.

We then recommend that on return from deployment our customers review their circumstances with us, and consider taking out term assured Life Insurance in order to guarantee the level of cover and premium for a longer, fixed period of time.

Weâre sorry that our Call Centre appears to have given inaccurate advice on this occasion, especially as we have been providing this cover consistently since the first Gulf conflict. If your friend would like to PM us with his contact details we will give him a call and establish the exact circumstances in order to ensure this does not happen again. We know how highly valued this service is, and would not wish there to be any misunderstanding about our commitment to ensure cover for all those going to areas of conflict around the world.

Forces Financial is a trading name of Stuart Harvey Insurance Brokers Limited who is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registration number 301858. Registered Office: Globe House, 24 Turret Lane, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4 1DL

Mighty_doh_nut · Dec 6, 2006

Wasn't a pop, I noticed that you claimed to give immediate life cover. It wasn't realised at the time that this was part of a Personal accident plan.

They said life cover was available should it be linked to a mortgage, but the only other way around it was the Personal accident plan. They then said that death from natural causes wasn't covered, but accidental death (including deployment related fatalities) was covered.

Is there a life only policy, unrelated to mortgage protection available for troops warned for orders to deploy to the middle east?

pombsen-armchair-warrior · Dec 6, 2006

Forces_Financial said:

FF,

Not related to this particular issue, other than it is insurance related, but perhaps you would comment on the following:

After being provided with my contents/kit insurance for the last 20 odd years, by variations of NAAFI, Norwich Union and now through you as a broker, I have now reached the stage where I will not be renewing my policy again.

This is not down to unsatisfactory service - in fact the single occasion on which I did claim the matter was dealt expeditiously and fairly. What has driven my decision now is the 33% increase demanded above my historic premiums, based on a decision by your company that NAAFI/NU had, in the past, incorrectly applied the wrong premium. After a great deal of wrangling with your company it transpired that you have 2 levels of premiums for those who live in SFA; one for SFA that lie within a fenced military base and a different one for the rest (the vast majority of the MOD SFA estate incidentally) that lie outwith this 'fenced perimeter'.

Aside from the fact that many other of your customers may not actually be covered by their insurance as they would not have realised that you apply this distinction, your policy is rather mean, unfair to the majority, and ultimately results in a totally uncompetetive product.

PAW

PS Why are you still using the NAAFI trademark on your documentation for UK customers?

Cait · Dec 6, 2006

I was told something similar when i rang up for a Life Policy, I couldn't get Life cover if i had been warned off for deployment.
However they could offer a Personal Accident policy but...... if i copped it i would only get upto 150K payout.

Having a very young child & husband I would require more than that, should the shit.e hit the fan.

The bird on the phone said someone else would ring me regarding the Personal Accident Cover.................. still waiting out.

If anyone can recomend/knows/have used a decent broker drop me a pm.

Mighty_doh_nut · Dec 7, 2006

Any update chaps?

bullshit · Dec 8, 2006

Dear Forces_Financial,

A key feature you seem to miss is loans to people on a BFPO address. I attempted a loan through a UK address but was fobbed off because I was not on the votal register. I then tried BFPO and the operator called Kevin had no comprehension of what I was talking about. I had to go to Halifax on my last UK visit and only by going into the branch and discussing, 1 to 1 did I get a loan.

I have an excellent credit history, own a house etc etc but found that my APR was higher as I had to go into a branch rather than a web-site (which obviously threw a techno wobble when I entered BFPO in the postcode bit)

One thing I see out here in Germany is young guys with no UK credit history having to get loans at really high APRs. I am talking 15-20% which is worse than some of those sharks on day-time TV. This is not their fault, just that they are young and only have a BFPO address!

Lending to squaddies must be a good deal, as long as you have their No, Rank, Name you can track them anywhere. Is this going to happen or are you just going to flog insurance?

Forces_Financial · Dec 9, 2006

Dear PAW

We have negotiated on a 20% perimeter discount for our Kit and Contents insurance customers if they live within military establishments in the UK and Cyprus, with obvious benefits to both our customers and ourselves. When providing a quote for a new policy we check whether you are living behind the wire, and if so we make the discount available.

Your point highlights the value of keeping contact details up to date so we can make sure that all discounts available are applied to your policy at the point of renewal, or in the event of a mid-term adjustment.

Itâs good to hear that when you made a claim with us your had a good experience, and hope that you will be prepared to give us the opportunity to quote again in the future as we will have many new products coming on stream which will be both competitive and geared for your lifestyles.

Forces Financial is a trading name of Stuart Harvey Insurance Brokers Limited who is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registration number 301858. Registered Office: Globe House, 24 Turret Lane, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4 1DL

Forces_Financial · Dec 9, 2006

Dear Cait

Great to hear from someone who understands just what level of Life cover they may need should anything happen â too many of us underestimate this.

Our levels of Personal Accident insurance with optional Life cover do provide a maximum payout of Â£150,000, which I think you might agree is better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick if you have to make provision at the last minute. But we spend a lot of time touring military establishments trying to get over the importance of taking out Life cover before deployment so all your circumstances can be taken into account and your preferred level of cover taken out over a term with all the benefits that go with it.

I can arrange a call for you Cait if you send me a PM.

Forces Financial is a trading name of Stuart Harvey Insurance Brokers Limited who is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registration number 301858. Registered Office: Globe House, 24 Turret Lane, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4 1DL

Mighty_doh_nut · Dec 10, 2006

We understand that its important to sort life insurance matters out long before a period of deployment, the concern was that the website clearly states life cover even if warned to deploy, then when you attempt to take a policy out, life insurance isn't available unless on the back of a personal accident plan.

Telephone numbers were then handed out for an alternate company within the R3 group.

Indeed Â£150,000 is far better than a poke in the eye, however I'm sure you will agree that if someone reads the website of a credible company stating they can be covered even if deployed it may take the importance away from prior, superior cover being taken out.

There are dozens of companies, touring camps, selling policies, be they kit insurance, life insurance, pension plans, and not so many endowments now, however the concern is the small print and how many of them truly cater for a family man / woman currently serving in todays climate.

My original post wasn't a dig, and in hinesight an email to the company making them aware would possibly be in order, but if the message gets across to just one man that you CAN'T get life cover from Forces Financial, unless piggybacked onto a personal accident plan then surely its a good thing?

Forces_Financial · Dec 11, 2006

Hi Bullshit

We are looking at all areas of insurance and financial services for the Armed Forces encouraged by the feedback we are receiving from all levels, so thanks for your input.

As you have a BFPO address you probably know that we provide over the counter banking and saving facilities through the Abbey agencies in our branches in Germany and Cyprus. We believe this is a vital service for families posted overseas, and will give your suggestion due consideration as we know loans are difficult to source, for a variety of reasons, for the group you have identified.

Forces Financial is a trading name of Stuart Harvey Insurance Brokers Limited who is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registration number 301858. Registered Office: Globe House, 24 Turret Lane, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4 1DL

Forces_Financial · Dec 12, 2006

Minister_doh_nut

Your posts have highlighted the fact that our Life and Personal Accident pages on the Forces Financial website could benefit from some clarification, and these are now being reviewed and will be updated shortly. Our Call Centre team will also be given refresher training using your contact with them as a test case, so a PM with your contact details would be very helpful.

Our understanding is that the very limited number of companies prepared to provide Life Insurance cover for those under orders to deploy use their Personal Accident policy to offer a Life Cover option in these circumstances. So Forces Financial is not unusual in this, but we are unusual in making this cover available at all times, and in never having withdrawn it from the market place.

It is our priority to ensure all clients are advised and recommended to take out adequate Life cover before being put on orders, when there are many choices open to them. However, as a company we are proud that we do have a backup policy in the form of our Personal Accident policy with Optional life cover for those who have not sought cover prior to deployment. As mentioned earlier, we recommend that on return our customers review their circumstances with us, and consider taking out term assured Life Insurance in order to guarantee the level of cover and premium for a longer, fixed period of time.

We work hard to keep all contact channels open and available to servicemen and women being deployed â you can call us from Iraq and arrange immediate cover â and would not wish to discourage anyone from getting the cover, that we know from experience, can be a great support should the worst happen.

Forces Financial is a trading name of Stuart Harvey Insurance Brokers Limited who is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registration number 301858. Registered Office: Globe House, 24 Turret Lane, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4 1DL

Mighty_doh_nut · Jan 13, 2007

Forces_Financial said:

Still there?

This is causing confusion.

BiscuitsAB · Jan 24, 2007

Forces_Financial said:

Ref para 1 your website is difficult to navigate and an enquiry for life cover is steered towards a quotation for term cover, and not towards the personal Injury cover you provide. This would not be a gripe if it wasnt for the fact that you strongly promote immediate cover for war risks. When I last checked your quote system it generated a list of illustrations from a selected list of term providors. Question. Are you Independant Financial Advisers or do you work from a limited list of providors?

Ref para 2 could I suggest you check your understanding of which companies will provide new cover for any person under orders to deploy. As my understanding is that there is the sum total of 1 company that will provide war risks cover to persons under orders to deploy. They do however have the following limitation in that they will only provide lifecover for mortgage protection basis and you need to provide a copy of the offer letter as evidence. Therefore an application for life cover for family protection may infact be completed and payments taken, with almost nil chance of a claim for an in theater death.

If life cover is taken out before orders to deploy are received then that particular company will provide war risks cover on term assuarance. The name of the company is Scottish Provident. This company is I believe on your panel. Acces to this company is also available through any Independant Financial Adviser or from many other Insurance Brokers.

What follows is purely my opinion (of which apparantly I hold many)

Forces Financial are in a very strong position to be able to provide high quality financial advice to serving forces, they are also in a position to think " what the hell we've practically got a monopoly why should we bother with TCF (treating customers fairly)". Its up to you to decide which way your going to go. Personally I feel that since you have chosen your niche market you have a moral obligation to ensure that you look after your armed forces clients and provide them with the highest levels of service, after all they are doing their bit for the freedom of this country so the rest of us can still have the freedom to earn a crust.

On a closing note I'd very much like to have a discussion in open forum as to why Forces Financial uses a 15 times income multiplyer to calculate lifecover requirements, as I realy cant see the sense of it!

Kind Regards

Forces_Financial · Jan 29, 2007

BiscuitsAB

Our website is still under review at the moment which I agree is not helping the situation, and the changes we wish to make to the Life insurance and Personal Accident insurance pages will clarify the points originally raised on this thread and repeated here.

We are not an IFA but a company which specialises in finding and delivering the most appropriate products for our military customers from major insurers. As such we have panels of insurers to call on to design products for us that meet your specific requirements.

With reference to your comments regarding mortgage protection cover we do have an insurer who will provide Life term insurance cover to those under orders if they have a mortgage. Cover can be arranged to a maximum value of Â£200,000. However, on top of the monthly premium a further cost is charged at the rate of Â£4 per Â£1000.

Lets take an example: if you had a mortgage of Â£150,000 the monthly mortgage protection premium would be say Â£30 for the sake of argument, and on top of this a further Â£4 x 15 = Â£60 would be applied, making the total monthly premium Â£90. This policy would pay out in the unfortunate event of a death in theatre once proof of mortgage had been supplied.

So anyone who has a mortgage but has not made any provision for life cover before being deployed can take this policy. Alternatively, you can bolt Optional Life cover onto a Personal Accident policy, which is open to those with or without a mortgage, and will provide up to Â£150,000 in the event of death at a total premium of Â£35.26 single standard cover.

However, if you can get ahead and take out Life insurance before you are under orders then you have a wider range of products and insurers to call on, as mentioned in earlier postings here.

All of this highlights the complexities of Life cover, and personal circumstances have to be fully explored to ensure individuals have the right policy. Anyone with queries about their requirements could send a pm and one of our advisors will call you.

We use and recommend the 15 times income calculation for clients with dependents looking for Life insurance cover for the following reasons:

Example calculation -
Annual salary of Â£25,000 x 15 = Â£375,000
Less
Death in service benefit (say 4 x income) of Â£100,000
Less
other Life policies sum assured of Â£50,000

In these circumstances we would recommend cover of Â£225,000 to support dependents in maintaining their standard of living ie accommodation, loans, bills, school fees etc

Finally, at the launch of Forces Financial in November 2006 the MD Al Voice said:

âI believe Forces Financial will provide the military insurance market with a much needed shot in the arm, as it is my fundamental belief that the Forces have not yet had solutions presented to them which fully recognise their uniqueness. Forces Financial has the expertise, distribution channels and influence to deliver this â in abundance. I am proud of the operationally focused protection we have always provided, but I believe I share with commanding officers a greater aspirational goal to enable those under their command to fulfil their financial dreams. My team and I will be consulting with service personnel at all levels to determine exactly how best we may achieve this together.â

Let us show you in the coming months just what we can do as a result of your feedback.

Forces Financial is a trading name of Stuart Harvey Insurance Brokers Limited who is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registration number 301858. Registered Office: Globe House, 24 Turret Lane, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4 1DL

BiscuitsAB · Jan 31, 2007

Forces_Financial said:

All well and good but a more sensible approach would be to ensure that any loans secured or otherwise were separately protected which would mean they would be settled on death.

Take the assumed 4x death in service and invest it for future growth, as if it is the case that the major or only wage earner has died leaving the spouse with dependant children said spouse might like to have the choice of not having to go to work full time, at the same time it may be unlikely that the spouse will have the earnings ability to build up significant savings unless they go back to work full time or have parents or other relatives with money.

Then instead of guesstimating a lump sum based on a notional gross yield of over 6.5% as you do, why not annualise the deceasedâs net earnings and put in place a policy that provides a monthly income thatâs is not subject to tax. The term of the policy can obviously be varied subject to the dependants needs.

This will provide a cheaper solution to the problem and will also avoid the risks associated with deriving income from a lump sum investment that is subject to the ravages of the stock market and the vagaries of the tax man.

EdwardCoke · Sep 12, 2012

Forces_Financial said:

First, apologies for the thread necromancy but I feel an update is in order.

I was looking for some clarification about whether Forces Financial is able to provide Personal Accident and/or Life insurance to troops under orders to deploy and came across this thread, and the above quoted reply ostensibly from a Forces Financial representative.

I spoke today to an agent in a Forces Financial office and was told that they are unable to provide cover for anyone under orders to deploy or within 6 months of deployment. The agent further clarified that one can still buy a policy, but they will not be covered if they are under orders or within 6 months of deployment.

I am not sure if this is a recent policy reversal or if the quoted poster was being misleading, or indeed, if Forces Financial still cannot communicate corporate policy to its agents. In any case, this doesn't, imo, cast Forces Financial in a good light.

lewiscollins · Sep 13, 2012

EdwardCoke said:

I don't believe the original poster you are referring to was being misleading - as previously FF did offer cover up to deployment - however with most things of this nature over time terms, conditions and prices can and do change, and in this case FF do now have an exclusion for deploying soldiers. In my experience it's not much of an issue practically as there are other providers who do not have this limitation - PAX, Abacus, TGW to name a few.

BiscuitsAB · Sep 15, 2012

lewiscollins said:

I don't believe the original poster you are referring to was being misleading - as previously FF did offer cover up to deployment - however with most things of this nature over time terms, conditions and prices can and do change, and in this case FF do now have an exclusion for deploying soldiers. In my experience it's not much of an issue practically as there are other providers who do not have this limitation - PAX, Abacus, TGW to name a few.

And SLI?

lewiscollins · Sep 15, 2012

BiscuitsAB said:

Oops...

Wasn't intending to be an exhaustive list and was thinking more on the PA side than Life....

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Forces Financial query

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